Hong-Kong Protests

daifo said:

The only speculation I have is that maybe the NSL arrest for her was not valid since it’s been 3 years without formal charges/court date. Maybe someone was overzealous , maybe lack of evidence, not sufficient reasons, evidence by bad informant, etc... Letting a high profile person a chance to run off would save the embarrassment of having to drop the charges.

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No, I think it’s far more likely that after in-depth investigation, it was determined she was just a useful idiot for the NED/CIA rather than an actual asset.

But her fame created a bit of a headache in that to charge and imprison her is to make her a martyr. Worse, because her crimes are comparatively minor, she would be back on the streets in a few short years and free to cause more trouble if she wants. Which is entirely possible, probable even, since she is an ideological useful idiot and all but certain to learn all the wrong lessons from her short incarceration. Thus when she does come out, she is likely to be more determined to cause trouble with a new sense of invulnerability since she only got a slap on the wrists last time.

With this move, she voluntarily exiled herself and turned herself from a would-be martyr into a real life coward to the rest of the used condoms. With time, her fame will fade and she will be just another forgotten nobody. So she is permanently neutralised as a nuisance for China.

This is a perfect example of how China doesn’t care about emotions and only focuses on results. It might be frustrating to see scum escape justice, but if it’s any consolation, exile is no picnic either. Especially to Anglo countries with historically high and growing anti-Chinese official and grassroots sentiments. Such used condoms have merely exchanged a short prison term for a life sentence in a hostile foreign land.

The good thing is a lot of the used condoms are living incel memes, so there is low risk of any lasting damage since most will end up dying bitter, alone and full of regrets even if they don’t admit it. A decent chunk of them will probably die as virgins unless they fall fowl of western laws, in which case they will wish they can die as virgins after going into gen-pop.

plawolf said:

No, I think it’s far more likely that after in-depth investigation, it was determined she was just a useful idiot for the NED/CIA rather than an actual asset.

But her fame created a bit of a headache in that to charge and imprison her is to make her a martyr. Worse, because her crimes are comparatively minor, she would be back on the streets in a few short years and free to cause more trouble if she wants. Which is entirely possible, probable even, since she is an ideological useful idiot and all but certain to learn all the wrong lessons from her short incarceration. Thus when she does come out, she is likely to be more determined to cause trouble with a new sense of invulnerability since she only got a slap on the wrists last time.

With this move, she voluntarily exiled herself and turned herself from a would-be martyr into a real life coward to the rest of the used condoms. With time, her fame will fade and she will be just another forgotten nobody. So she is permanently neutralised as a nuisance for China.

This is a perfect example of how China doesn’t care about emotions and only focuses on results. It might be frustrating to see scum escape justice, but if it’s any consolation, exile is no picnic either. Especially to Anglo countries with historically high and growing anti-Chinese official and grassroots sentiments. Such used condoms have merely exchanged a short prison term for a life sentence in a hostile foreign land.

The good thing is a lot of the used condoms are living incel memes, so there is low risk of any lasting damage since most will end up dying bitter, alone and full of regrets even if they don’t admit it. A decent chunk of them will probably die as virgins unless they fall fowl of western laws, in which case they will wish they can die as virgins after going into gen-pop.

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The key is that even after the Mainland and Hong Kong come to terms with regarding the future of universal suffrage (still an unresolved issue and will likely linger to 2047), those who participated in the 2019 uprising would never be allowed to set foot on Hong Kong.

Ideally you want to have a genuine universal suffrage (which is a genuine demand from the people/citizens) with pro-independence folks or those representing foreign interests barred from both voting and running (for national security and foreign interference reasons).

antiterror13 said:

I think they should just stay in the UK as they said before that they'd prefer to be a beggar but "free" than a prince in HK

There is really no point to go back to HK and not happy and complaint all the time ...... and potentially creating a trouble

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Well, you also over look my point #3. I think it is easy to say you want to be "free" and live like a beggar. If you have a family, it is not so easy. You make you kids get bullied, or not have a good lifestyle for your own intangible ideological ends, they will end up resenting you if they don't share the same values (like those people who hate their hippie parents). It will be a sad life either way.

Phead128 said:

US did sanction Russia when some political dissent gets poisoned. This was very famous in the news.

Treasury Targets Individuals Involved in the Poisoning of Aleksey Navalny

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Anyways, I hope they don't let Joshua Wong escape so easily too. Also, it's quite lonely and boring to escape to Canada by yourself, I guarantee Agnes Chow will soon want to return to HK.

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She's a young, single gal, I'm sure she can find someone, lol.

I think her biggest shock will be the number of patriotic Chinese in Toronto. I think there is an assumption made in general that Chinese in Canada are seeking "western values", but the reality is just circumstance or opportunity has brought them there. The Stand for HK protest in Toronto was drowned out by a PRC supporters and after that debacle they pretty much stopped trying. I bid her good luck in Toronto, and hope her English is better than the average HKer, as she will find her Cantonese increasingly useless in the city unless she wants to talk to grandparent-age folks (from my own experience).

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

The key is that even after the Mainland and Hong Kong come to terms with regarding the future of universal suffrage (still an unresolved issue and will likely linger to 2047), those who participated in the 2019 uprising would never be allowed to set foot on Hong Kong.

Ideally you want to have a genuine universal suffrage (which is a genuine demand from the people/citizens) with pro-independence folks or those representing foreign interests barred from both voting and running (for national security and foreign interference reasons).

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Imperial Britain never gave genuine universal suffrage during 150 years of colonial rule, neither did Imperial China for 2000 years before that. Why is it an expectation that Communist China give universial suffrage to HK? Are we HKers somehow special Chinese just because Westerners say so? Give me a break.

The ideal situation is enact a national security law that every nation, including UK, US, Europe also has enacted. HK not having an NSL is an anomaly.

Phead128 said:

Imperial Britain never gave genuine universal suffrage during 150 years of colonial rule, neither did Imperial China for 2000 years before that. Why is it an expectation that Communist China give universial suffrage to HK? Are we HKers somehow special Chinese just because Westerners say so? Give me a break.

The ideal situation is enact a national security law that every nation, including UK, US, Europe also has enacted. HK not having an NSL is an anomaly.

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Actually a nation with a general suffrage system excluding supposed deviants are more united because it creates an internal "us the true citizens" versus "them the deviants/traitors/slaves/5th column" situation. I don't think a universal suffrage in this sense (could be expended to Mainland China in the future as well) is a bad idea. In fact, China already has multiples parties under the CCP's leadership. The only thing the CCP has to do is to open up genuine elections between the parties that already exist within the PRC. This sounds like a western electoral democracy, right?

HOWEVER..., this are important and valuable lessons should be drawn from the 19th and 20th Century. You REALLY have to limit suffrage to proven patriots ONLY. How do you do that? You exclude folks who have committed crimes, folks who have consistently made unpatriotic speech or fostered social divisions (like illegal demonstrations or consistently writing unpatriotic posts on social media), folks who have represented or advocated for foreign interests, folks who are dependent on foreign financial incomes, folks who are in debt, former and current tax delinquents, folks who are dependent on social welfare (including people who 'lie flat'), folks who are mentally ill, and folks (call it wokism) who promote supposed minority/regional/religious/gender privileges over the majority will/values. In other words, you can indeed have a genuine majoritarian democracy in China that is run more efficiently and legitimately than the West, but you shouldn't extend suffrage beyond those who can prove themselves to be patriotic citizens. And citizens should not be granted the right to vote until after age 25 (when they have some income and become a productive member of society) and should reapply to vote every 2 years to reevaluated. As soon as the PSB finds evidence of unpatriotic actions listed above, voting right would be stripped for 5 years or more (permanent ban for relatively severe cases). In fact, under such limited universal suffrage, I don't see the CCP being marginalized by other parties. It will likely remain very competitive (similar to the PAP in Singapore or the LDP in Japan). Then the Chinese side could argue that China would indeed be "more democratic" than the elitist liberal democracies because China's majoritarian democracy would reflect the general will of the citizens, not those of business lobbies, corporations, or woke cultural wars.

Just brain storming explaining why I am not against universal suffrage. It serves to legitimize both the state and the nation as a true community of "us" more unique and better than the foreign "them".

What is the maximum punishing for skipping bail? HK needs to compound that punishment year after year so that she will never come back to HK again.

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Then the Chinese side could argue that China would indeed be "more democratic" than the elitist liberal democracies

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China will be democratic, when US stop providing weapons, military training, and money to 75% of the world’s dictators, autocracies, monarchies, military regimes. Until then, China will keep doing what's best for China's self-interest, instead of bending over backwards to appease or win approval from hypocritical West.

But there is democracy already no? Not direct democracy, but by electoral collage.

You can argue that HK, TW and Macau doesn't have participation, but not all democracies have voting across all their territories.

The communist party has a special popular mandate due to its historical role in ensuring continued greatness. This is no different than the US establishment parties having a special popular mandate due to their historical role in America's rise. People in China still choose their representants, who in turn eventually nominate the leaders.

plawolf said:

The good thing is a lot of the used condoms are living incel memes, so there is low risk of any lasting damage since most will end up dying bitter, alone and full of regrets even if they don’t admit it. A decent chunk of them will probably die as virgins unless they fall fowl of western laws, in which case they will wish they can die as virgins after going into gen-pop.

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Tbh with a lot of the west being BMI 30+, if these caricature looking people get laid at all only depends on how low they're willing to go. There are undoubtedly a vast sea of Peter Zeihan and Amy Schumer lookalikes for the Agnes' and Joshuas of this world...

Also maybe state department can provide waifus? Surely there's 1 or 2 good looking junior officials that would be up for helping the honored exiled leader(s) of HK, at domestic tasks. It could give them the popularity boost they need.

Rioters can stay out but if you were just a temporary "brainwashed" yellow or forced by peer pressure... you are welcome back if you have learnt your lesson.