Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

airsuperiority · Oct 3, 2014

Bltizo said:
Gotta commend HKPF for their professionalism ether way.

I always thought of the HKPF highly and we were taught in kindergarten that police stands for righteousness.

I just think if you guys are at the scene, you would know what I'm talking about. While I can be challenged that I'm not a primary source, all the videos and pictures I have seen are uploaded by people at the scene, and some with different copies to solidify what had happen. It didn't take one picture to convince me, as I did not want to believe either of these events which signify a downhill fall and not for the better.

To be honest, I WOULD love to think everything is the way you guys made it out to be, but I couldn't..not after what I have seen.

I had given up on HK. It will go downhill and become more and more corrupted. That's all I see from now on. If I'm right, you guys will remember why someday.

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【20時17分消息】旺角、銅鑼灣和金鐘下午分別有反佔中人士與集會市民衝突，但警方。現場有「良心」的退休警察看不過眼，向記者表示，今日警察的行為與他上年紀70年代任職警隊時一樣，軍裝警和黑社會合作「做戲」，相信「有人想擦鞋，眨一眨眼啲人就即刻知要做嘢，做咗嘢自己個場咪穩陣啲囉」。

他又說，不少退休警員對此看不過眼，但未能現身支持和平集會市民，熱心的他唯有到場支持，但他擔心香港在「警黑」合作下，長此下去「玩完」

AssassinsMace · Oct 3, 2014

pla101prc said:
well we ought to avoid looking at the protesters as a unitary actor. there could very well be many on the streets now who believe that negotiations must continue, but no one wants to take the job because it carries a risk of being marginalized within an increasingly radical movement.

Well I think that was the unrealistic goal to make it look like everyone was "naturally" on the same page. Now it's unraveling because again of short-sightedness and the tactic they've gone back to in desperation to get people back together is blaming the factionalizing on a mainland conspiracy.

pla101prc · Oct 3, 2014

airsuperiority said:
I always thought of the HKPF highly and we were taught in kindergarten that police stands for righteousness.

I just think if you guys are at the scene, you would know what I'm talking about. While I can be challenged that I'm not a primary source, all the videos and pictures I have seen are uploaded by people at the scene, and some with different copies to solidify what had happen. It didn't take one picture to convince me, as I did not want to believe either of these events which signify a downhill fall and not for the better.

To be honest, I WOULD love to think everything is the way you guys made it out to be, but I couldn't..not after what I have seen.

I had given up on HK. It will go downhill and become more and more corrupted. That's all I see from now on. If I'm right, you guys will remember why someday.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

【20時17分消息】旺角、銅鑼灣和金鐘下午分別有反佔中人士與集會市民衝突，但警方。現場有「良心」的退休警察看不過眼，向記者表示，今日警察的行為與他上年紀70年代任職警隊時一樣，軍裝警和黑社會合作「做戲」，相信「有人想擦鞋，眨一眨眼啲人就即刻知要做嘢，做咗嘢自己個場咪穩陣啲囉」。

他又說，不少退休警員對此看不過眼，但未能現身支持和平集會市民，熱心的他唯有到場支持，但他擔心香港在「警黑」合作下，長此下去「玩完」

apple? i remember this newspaper posting ads calling mainlanders grasshoppers lol

superdog · Oct 3, 2014

airsuperiority said:
I will take a moment to think about the last sentence. I understand the disruptions is gonna anger people, but when you have thugs smashing people, touching female students, then police doing minimal about it. if they do arrest them, some are released again after. don't you know how disappointed i am with the police right now? i forgave them on 9/28, 9/29, but i lost all hopes on them, and you must understand im the type who had been supporting the police and believed they are just. we grew up learning to respect the police and they are righteous, and that's from since the days of kindergarten in hong kong. i don't believe in it anymore. they are permitting thugs not just in mk, but cwb too. the hk police should not expect they can ever fix their image again.

i don't know where you stand man, but you have no idea how disappointed i feel right now. our city is dead.

I understand your frustration, but I also think you may be affected by the highly sensational reporting from local media and Facebook right now. I saw many photos and videos on Facebook myself, and I couldn't help but notice the claims in the description and responses were often not fully substantiated by the photos or videos themselves. I also noticed a huge discrepancy between overwhelming media portrayal of these "violent anti-OC thugs" and what I have personally learned about people who confronted OC supporters near their home. There seems to be a media campaign happening right now that uses violent incidents to represent the anti-OC crowd while ignoring most of the "normal" anti-OC confrontations. I think this actually showed the lack of organization of the anti-OC crowd (hence the lack of discipline, overall plan, and PR efforts), not how organized they are.

This is not to deny that some violent and semi-violent conflicts between the anti-OC and pro-OC crowd did occur in a few different locations. AFAIK, some involves foul language, some involves pushing back and forth and throwing supplies away, and there were at least one or two cases of some individual, who appears to be anti-OC, directly punched someone else. I was not there in any of these incidents so I cannot give you an objective account of what happened, but I advise you to take what the OC supporters reported with a grain a salt, or with a lot of salt. Be wary about what you hear especially on how the police handled the situation and how they "worked together" with thugs, as well as on any other word-of-mouth stories without solid corroborating evidence. Even if you see a video about something, it doesn't mean all the claims and conclusions other than what the video actually showed were true. Heck, even a video itself could be cut short to completely reverse people's judgement on what happened. If you studied psychology you should know full well how these stories could and will be distorted in a heated atmosphere we have now.

airsuperiority · Oct 3, 2014

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airsuperiority · Oct 3, 2014

superdog said:
I understand your frustration, but I also think you may be affected by the highly sensational reporting from local media and Facebook right now. I saw many photos and videos on Facebook myself, and I couldn't help but notice the claims in the description and responses were often not fully substantiated by the photos or videos themselves. I also noticed a huge discrepancy between overwhelming media portrayal of these "violent anti-OC thugs" and what I have personally learned about people who confronted OC supporters near their home. There seems to be a media campaign happening right now that uses violent incidents to represent the anti-OC crowd while ignoring most of the "normal" anti-OC confrontations. I think this actually showed the lack of organization of the anti-OC crowd (hence the lack of discipline, overall plan, and PR efforts), not how organized they are.

This is not to deny that some violent and semi-violent conflicts between the anti-OC and pro-OC crowd did occur in a few different locations. AFAIK, some involves foul language, some involves pushing back and forth and throwing supplies away, and there were at least one or two cases of some individual, who appears to be anti-OC, directly fist-attacked someone else. I was not there in any of these incidents so I cannot give you an objective account of what happened, but I advise you to take what the OC supporters reported with a grain a salt, or with a lot of salt. Be wary about what you hear especially on how the police handled the situation and how they "worked together" with thugs, as well as on any other word-of-mouth stories without solid corroborating evidence. Even if you see a video about something, it doesn't mean all the claims and conclusions other than what the video actually showed were true. Heck, even a video itself could be cut short to completely reverse people's judgement on what happened. If you studied psychology you should know full well how these stories could and will be distorted in a heated atmosphere we have now.

You know, I made the distinctions very clear of referring to the attackers as attackers rather than pro-OC, and believing most of the pro-OC people will not commit the level of violence portrayed.

I understand your careful advice to me and I will keep it in the back of my mind. It's just that I find it unlikely that the raw footages that are being uploaded by different users and uploaded so quickly would be cut out and edited, although it is of course always a possibility. Despite sourcing from Apple Daily, I only take their stories to back up verified incidents that had been covered multiple times elsewhere. I don't trust Apple Daily too much by default because I had heard they're more pan-democratic by nature and all those weird rumours, but things are stacking up.

I will like to wish for the best, but I need someone to rationalize everything and explain everything I have seen to me in a rational and make sense manner that convince me as a better explanation to everything, because at this point, picture that are being pieced before my eyes are contradictory to everything most people here are saying. I won't deny of media sensationism, but then most of the videos are uploaded from users.

Also, many of the members here should well know, none of them have more exposures to the coverage than I am at this time, and my choices of sources spans multiple areas and not just one, not to mention many had a more pro-HKSAR/Beijing bias and less understanding and sympathy of the situation that took place, the step up, the characters, the people, all that jazz.

pla101prc · Oct 3, 2014

airsuperiority said:
they are the only newspaper right now with a different headline than the other papers.

of course you can choose to say no it's not credible cuz it's biased, but i can only say the past few days everything i have seen is starting to show its true colors of what's happening.

Your psychology is probably fairly common among the young demonstrators out there. at first there was a lot of hope (though i dont know why they were that confident as I personally did not believe that they were gonna achieve anything), then there was anger when things did not unfold as intended, and now there is despair as it became obvious that despite all the effort and sacrifices, this movement has done little to change the status quo. LCY is still in power, no prospect of amendments to the election law and the CCP did all this without even getting its hands dirty.

the headlines are right though, stability right now is way better than whatever elusive objective the students are fighting for because no matter how incomparably noble it is, it cannot be achieved. so better to cash in now while the press is still good.

airsuperiority · Oct 3, 2014

pla101prc said:
Your psychology is probably fairly common among the young demonstrators out there. at first there was a lot of hope (though i dont know why they were that confident as I personally did not believe that they were gonna achieve anything), then there was anger when things did not unfold as intended, and now there is despair as it became obvious that despite all the effort and sacrifices, this movement has done little to change the status quo. LCY is still in power, no prospect of amendments to the election law and the CCP did all this without even getting its hands dirty.

the headlines are right though, stability right now is way better than whatever elusive objective the students are fighting for because no matter how incomparably noble it is, it cannot be achieved. so better to cash in now while the press is still good.

The only real reason I am so attached to this isn't because of as much hope for HK, but because I see those high school students like my little brothers and sisters, and I can't stand them being viciously attacked, touched, like this. No matter how much disagreement, grievances you have, nothing justifies these forms of barbaric behaviours or attacking them like you want to kill them. Is 5-6 days of disruption a legitimate reason to take a kid's life? I also don't see how public anger and attacking like you want them to get really hurt can be connected to acceptable point of view.

I knew long ago they ain't gonna get much done so I had been advocating for a week of protest at most. I wasn't being unrealistically hopeful or optimistic. It's this group of youths who still believe in the future are they out in the streets today who I have the love for, and who I wish at the end of the day they go home safely and nothing happens to them.

I have a feeling they will be the last group still with this hope, because after that HK is already doomed and can't be saved. It's getting more and more corrupted as it is.

airsuperiority · Oct 3, 2014

superdog · Oct 3, 2014

airsuperiority said:
they are the only newspaper right now with a different headline than the other papers.

of course you can choose to say no it's not credible cuz it's biased, but i can only say the past few days everything i have seen is starting to show its true colors of what's happening.

I respect you because you make sincere discussions, why suddenly throw out such a lie? What you posted were far from all the major newspapers in HK, and more importantly, that picture was taken more than two years ago.

The following are what's really on HK newspapers, October 3rd 2014:

1608623-scmp-epaper-542dbd12c3f07.pdf.jpg

Even someone who can't read Chinese can tell they have different headlines.

Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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