Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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airsuperiority

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People who keeps saying this is the anger of the people, I have this to say:

Do you know why I say it isn't? Only one reason: a real citizen, normal public folk, will not viciously BEAT a person into a pulp until the person is all bleeding.

If you're rational or a normal person, even at your worst you won't commit such serious assault with such viciousness and velocity on another individual, unless you genuinely want to hurt them really bad. The level of force used by these attackers are not what you see as very very angry public folks. It's a lot more. I do not think public anger is non-existent, or that there are some genuine public folks going at it, but I do NOT believe you have THAT MANY people committing that serious of assault.

I don't care who you support, but ask yourself if you are the type who tolerate people beating each other up. Don't have double standards just because of a protest. When you provide double standards, you are letting yourself on a path of selective preferential treatment and only serving behaviours pertaining to your interests and not your actual judgement.
 
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pla101prc

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Bltizo said:
At a glance, it seems like Beijing's choice to be hands off in its approach is working for them, and some public opinion is turning against OC. I think if any western media calling them CCP paid or whatever are revealing ther biases unless they can come up with some solid evidence. It would be nice if the anti OC crowd are able to remain non violent, but if they are made up of small businesses, i can understand how they might feel having their livelihoods disrupted. The fact that Beijing did not use violence or even excess non lethal means (as in some western countries) there is no "moral outrage" for the outlying population to gather around.

Let's just hope there isn't too much violence between OC and anti OC, depending on how large the latter is.
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i actually do believe allegations of criminal element within this recent surge of anti-OC movement. Think about it, the triad is and other various "societies" are fairly prevalent in Hong Kong. They run all kinds of businesses in those areas that the students are currently occupying, and thus would naturally be angered by the disruption of its business. I think this explains nicely why their reaction towards OC was violent but also seemingly well-organized. even those businesses that do not have criminal affiliations may quietly approve attempts to disperse students from their front yards, i know i would if i were a business owner.

as for stories of CCP-paid thug...that's just stupid and yet more evidence of immaturity, as it shows that those who levy such accusations are unable to accept the simple fact that some in this world might not necessarily agree with them.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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airsuperiority said:
The anti-OC crowd isn't made up of legitimate small business people. The video link up there shows a group of youths with masks smashing things. And to believe anti-OC crowd does things like these means these anti-OC people are violent and barbaric, which will not make sense because they are supposively just normal HK folks, and normal HK public wouldn't/shouldn't go to THAT extremes of continuous physical attacks on students.

No matter how frustrated one can be, I don't see continuous physical attacks and beatings on students as something a normal citizen would do. I mean, would you beat literally start people beating people up on and on?
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I'm going to reserve opinion for a while to let the situation show who's a majority; many of the photos of supposed anti OCers on the last page weren't youths nor masked.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
AssassinsMace said:
If the students delayed talks after demanding it, it reminds of Occupy Wall Street. They were protesting against the loss of freedom yet in some cities the protestors were regulating who the media can talk to in the crowd of protestors. They didn't know what they were there for in the first place. They're bragging this was a leaderless movement? I have my own thoughts on why it's a "leaderless" movement but it just goes to show that demanding a meeting was expected not to be answered so they can use that as propaganda. Now that a meeting has been granted, the delay is because of too many chefs in the kitchen arguing.
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They delayed it because the attacks started. They said if the HKSAR don't stop the attacks they will cease the negotiation.
 
shen

shen

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HK wife fed up with husband's immaturity :)

Terence Tang, a 52-year-old engineer who spent his second day at the protests Thursday, said his 18-year-old daughter is neutral, he thinks his 16-year-old son supports the cause, and he’s had arguments with his wife over his taking part.

He displayed a WhatsApp message from his wife saying she planned to lock the gate of their house and let him sleep on the street if he stayed at the protest.
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Small business owners are most likely to be angry because their livelihood is at stake. Big business can take the hit for now but if it continues, they leave with their pocketbooks. They don't need to beat any one.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
Bltizo said:
I'm going to reserve opinion for a while to let the situation show who's a majority; many of the photos of supposed anti OCers on the last page weren't youths nor masked.
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Those aren't the ones attacking, that's the thing. There are plenty of people who came out to yell at the protestors and it's expected, but I don't think they are the ones who's been beating students senseless. I have been referring to the attackers and not the pro-OC people for that reason.
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
AssassinsMace said:
If the students delayed talks after demanding it, it reminds of Occupy Wall Street. They were protesting against the loss of freedom yet in some cities the protestors were regulating who the media can talk to in the crowd of protestors. They didn't know what they were there for in the first place. They're bragging this was a leaderless movement? I have my own thoughts on why it's a "leaderless" movement but it just goes to show that demanding a meeting was expected not to be answered so they can use that as propaganda. Now that a meeting has been granted, the delay is because of too many chefs in the kitchen arguing.
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yup, walking away from the table was a major blunder. i think a couple months later when we reflect on why this movement failed, that moment will come up as one of the reasons.

bragging about being leaderless is an indication that one lacks basic understanding of politics. the moderate leaders of this movement successfully averted a potential violent development on the night of the 2nd. unfortunately "leaderless" is where this movement is heading if current trend is to continue.
 
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airsuperiority

Captain
AssassinsMace said:
Small business owners are most likely to be angry because their livelihood is at stake. Big business can take the hit for now but if it continues, they leave with their pocketbooks. They don't need to beat any one.
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Well that's what they are angry about the whole time and I sympathize with them. But I highly doubt most are attackers, save for that business owner who grabbed a high school female student's leg. I was trying to find the picture because last night before I slept I saw a picture of that a-hole, then this morning there's a link my friend posted which identified him as a restaurant owner somewhere
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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airsuperiority said:
People who keeps saying this is the anger of the people, I have this to say:

Do you know why I say it isn't? Only one reason: a real citizen, normal public folk, will not viciously BEAT a person into a pulp until the person is all bleeding.

If you're rational or a normal person, even at your worst you won't commit such serious assault with such viciousness and velocity on another individual, unless you genuinely want to hurt them really bad. The level of force used by these attackers are not what you see as very very angry public folks. It's a lot more. I do not think public anger is non-existent, or that there are some genuine public folks going at it, but I do NOT believe you have THAT MANY people committing that serious of assault.

I don't care who you support, but ask yourself if you are the type who tolerate people beating each other up. Don't have double standards just because of a protest. When you provide double standards, you are letting yourself on a path of selective preferential treatment and only serving behaviours pertaining to your interests and not your actual judgement.
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Not to sound callous, but I think taking the position that "normal" people wouldn't commit acts of violence, and thus antiOCers are not actual HKers or whatever, is not a very firm position to make a case on.

Obviously I don't condone the violence, but frustration and elevated emotions (especially between opposing groups) usually has a tendency of leading to violence, even sometimes what could be perceived as sadism.

But like I said, there seems to be differing confrontations between OC and anti OC, it'll take time to see how representative and persistent the perceived "organised and violent" anti OC subgroups are.
 
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