Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

I'm confused why the protesters declined the talks CY offered.

They claim it has to do with the police "allowing" the violent encounters between anti OC and OC, but even if it were true, that feels like a flimsy excuse. Offering talks is the first concession that has been offered by the SAR government, you'd think the protesters would take it with both hands.

superdog said:

I respect you because you make sincere discussions, why suddenly throw out such a lie? What you posted were far from all the major newspapers in HK, and more importantly, that picture was taken more than two years ago.



The following are what's really on HK newspapers, October 3rd 2014:

Even someone who can't read Chinese can tell they have different headlines.

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Just a pic I saw on Facebook. Could it be from few days ago? I didn't think anyone will PS that. If it's fake, that's troubling. ugh
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OH few years ago. Ugh I guess I didn't escape the dupe this time. I sorta escaped falling for a trap few days ago of a report of PLA entering the city.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm gonna remove that before it misleads.

Bltizo said:

I'm confused why the protesters declined the talks CY offered.

They claim it has to do with the police "allowing" the violent encounters between anti OC and OC, but even if it were true, that feels like a flimsy excuse. Offering talks is the first concession that has been offered by the SAR government, you'd think the protesters would take it with both hands.

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The dialogue was taking place until the attacks broke out, then the delegates threatened to cease the talks if the government doesn't stop these attacks from happening. Unless there had been some development, that's all I know.

airsuperiority said:

Just a pic I saw on Facebook. Could it be from few days ago? I didn't think anyone will PS that. If it's fake, that's troubling. ugh
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OH few years ago. Ugh I guess I didn't escape the dupe this time. I sorta escaped falling for a trap few days ago of a report of PLA entering the city.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm gonna remove that before it misleads.

Click to expand...

You should never rely on facebook reporting. Mainstream news are already unreliable and biased enough.

airsuperiority said:

The dialogue was taking place until the attacks broke out, then the delegates threatened to cease the talks if the government doesn't stop these attacks from happening. Unless there had been some development, that's all I know.

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Kind of a catch 22 though, isn't it? Police can't be as flexible in maintaining order with protesters in the streets, unless OC wants police to use pepper spray or riot gear against anti OC... But then there's the issue that it'll be hard to prevent riot police, OC, and anti OC turning into a three way clash.

I feel like withdrawing from the talks over something the police can't seriously control without being seen as "cracking down," was premature

airsuperiority said:

The dialogue was taking place until the attacks broke out, then the delegates threatened to cease the talks if the government doesn't stop these attacks from happening. Unless there had been some development, that's all I know.

Click to expand...

the attacks do not constitute sufficient excuse for pulling out. so those who did were either too immature, or were afraid of being marginalized and wanted someone else to talk to LCY, which then became a tragedy of the common scenario, nobody ended up talking to LCY.

it wasnt a smart move, now if the talks ever resume, representatives of the OC movement will be at a disadvantage.

Bltizo said:

Kind of a catch 22 though, isn't it? Police can't be as flexible in maintaining order with protesters in the streets, unless OC wants police to use pepper spray or riot gear against anti OC... But then there's the issue that it'll be hard to prevent riot police, OC, and anti OC turning into a three way clash.

I feel like withdrawing from the talks over something the police can't seriously control without being seen as "cracking down," was premature

Click to expand...

The assumption has been laid that the government has knowledge about this and warranted it, so the act is to force the government to stop.

If you assume the government is behind the attacks, then this action is to get the attackers to stop first.

However I know most of you guys won't believe it and it's not too easy to verify, so just take it as it is.

Bltizo said:

Kind of a catch 22 though, isn't it? Police can't be as flexible in maintaining order with protesters in the streets, unless OC wants police to use pepper spray or riot gear against anti OC... But then there's the issue that it'll be hard to prevent riot police, OC, and anti OC turning into a three way clash.

I feel like withdrawing from the talks over something the police can't seriously control without being seen as "cracking down," was premature

Click to expand...

I think when the problems surfaced in Mong Kok there were probably initial confusion over facts on the ground. There might be assumption on the part of the movement that it was orchestrated by the HKSAR. A basic premise in any negotiation is the need to act in good faith. If that is not seen to be present then any negotiations will just be a sham.

I think the movement should withdraw from Mong Kok and regroup their resources in the Central district. Let the situation settle down and get the facts straighten. This requires organisation and intelligence on the ground which is best directed and managed from a central command.

They should then go back to negotiations after ensuring the safety of people involved in the movement.

pla101prc said:

the attacks do not constitute sufficient excuse for pulling out. so those who did were either too immature, or were afraid of being marginalized and wanted someone else to talk to LCY, which then became a tragedy of the common scenario, nobody ended up talking to LCY.

it wasnt a smart move, now if the talks ever resume, representatives of the OC movement will be at a disadvantage.

Click to expand...

Whatever it is, my heart sank for the students who are taking the beatings and being touched. That's all I care the most at this point. I had given up on the police and this city last night

airsuperiority said:

Just a pic I saw on Facebook. Could it be from few days ago? I didn't think anyone will PS that. If it's fake, that's troubling. ugh
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OH few years ago. Ugh I guess I didn't escape the dupe this time. I sorta escaped falling for a trap few days ago of a report of PLA entering the city.
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm gonna remove that before it misleads.

Click to expand...

I guess there's no need to repeat what I said earlier about using Facebook information. Just want to add that our tendency to believe what fits our schema is so strong, plus all the peer-influence on Facebook, I know it would be difficult to stay rational and skeptical. I have to remind myself about this when I read claims that fits my belief too well.

Thanks for taking out the misinformation.