Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

Skywatcher said:

I agree that it is not in the protesters' interest to go beyond this weekend. Because then they will either disrupt the economy, with attendant lose in popular support, or if they're not big enough to cause any disruption after a month and are reduced in number to a several hundred people camping in a park, they fade into irrelevance like the sunflower movement. Take popular support while it's on your side, and use it to influence elections in 2017 and beyond (it's a long game after all), that's my advice to them.

But chances are that due to the lack of leadership in the movement, a large number of people are probably going to camp out pass this weekend.

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airsuperiority said:

For your information, HK's SWAT is called SDU, Special Duties Unit, trained by the SAS and sometimes with DEVRU.

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airsuperiority said:

Very good question. I had a reality moment and worried last night. I do feel the protest will last at least till October 1st to send a direct message to Beijing, and preferrably maximum will be the end of this week. I don't hope it lasts another week after because that's too disruptive and I don't think anyone wants that, even the protestors themselves. Everyone will be exhausted, including the police, HKSAR, protestors, entire HK as a city, Central financial district, the world, firms and offices based in HK, and even Beijing for things they have in HK. Wasting 2 weeks is totally not worth it. I also doubt Beijing will hold off for that long because that's wasting everyone's time, and they have resources or agendas and stuffs who are also secured in HK too, or at least with the elites who are based in HK. I don't think those local elites want this to last so they will probably meet with Beijing or start to talk or communicate with Beijing. I also believe that Beijing's invested interests in HK will also begin to speak, so essentially there will be some response. Waiting for this whole movement to die off is the worst, immature, and least productive way to do things, so I hope both sides will take an open attitude towards things. The attitudes and concerns of the protestors are real so it's important to address, not ignore. Plus, this CY administration is dysfunct, and unless Beijing really wants HK to be like this constantly in the future, they gotta do something about this inept puppet. It's in everyone's best interests that things gets fixed. Historical as it is, it allows everyone to learn from it and move on and improve. Plus, has Beijing ever had movements of this scale ever happen before and then handling it, other than June 4th?(which of course is a major disaster, and that I also feel Beijing probably will not resort to that path again because it's been proven to not work) [being that armed military responses don't work]

Honestly though, now I understand how frightening it is on June 4th. Seeing your own people and students there with tanks rolling out is unimaginable.

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airsuperiority said:

You are right. I also think or hope by this week some progress is made then everyone go home and take a nice hot shower and rest. Let life go back to normal, make some nice progress, F CY in the ass by firing him, and everyone's happy. I don't think democracy is the silver bullet to solving everything, like what that writer said, but at least we get to be in control of what we want and change how some things go. Everyone has a lot they can learn from from such experience, especially if HK goes real democratic. Plus, Beijing will actually be earning a lot of PR points from Hkers if they allow it to happen. It's really not a sign of weakness to let it happen; it shows generosity. (too bad Beijing won't really see it that way)

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pla101prc said:

i wonder if the organizers of this this protest had in mind of an endgame, like so many American strategists now insist on as a prerequisite to commit its military. We know for sure that the CCP will not relent, so what do these protesters plan on doing?

If these protesters were banking on their grievance resonating within mainland China, thereby coercing the government into a compromise, they should probably remember that you dont get support from people that you refer to as "grasshoppers" lol.

so i dont know if there is a coherent strategy in place for the protesters.

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MwRYum said:

Apologized to the police? Really? Did that really happened or just some cover-their-own-arse story made up by them? That's because even now I can still read new messages on Facebook, by those "yellow guards", insulting the police.

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這是最好的年代，這是最壞的年代。

昨夜淩晨，我和朋友由銅鑼灣一直走到金鐘。我們沒有目標也不打算停留太久，只是旁觀地看看這個不一樣的香港。剛過了劍拔弩張的警察總部，在天橋下，我看到兩個青年，在抺牆。

我: 「喂，駛唔駛幫手呀?」
我們走近。
「做咩呀你地?」
「抺牆呀，啲人噴污糟晒，俾記者影到就樣衰啦。」

他們用布用力在抺，但我發覺沒有效果。
「搵咩抺呀你?」
「漂白水呀，物資站乜都無，火酒佢又唔肯俾我，只拿到少少漂白水。」

我的問題處理機制立即打出三個字: 晒X氣
「咁抺無用架，算啦」我不知自己說了多少遍。但他們沒有停下來，繼續用力抺。還指著退了一點色的噴漆說
「睇下，抺到架，有少少用架」
我看到有些寫著學生訴求的傳單貼在牆上。
「咁呢啲駛唔駛撕番落黎呀?」我問
「呢D唔駛。呢D 係我地既訴求」
「咁不如搵多幾張傳單貼住佢咪算囉，咁抺唔到架。」我繼續一邊旁觀一邊撥我的冷水。

他頭也不回。

他繼續一邊抺，一邊說。

「咁同梁振英有咩分別? 扮做左就算。」

我無地自容。我在說甚麼? 我在教壞細路! 他們很希望這個和平集會，不被沾污。他不在乎要付出多少，他相信一定要完成。這個地方裡面的人，昨晚還在無差別地拋催淚彈傷害他們，但他們沒有覺得這條紅漆是應有此報。他們很清楚，他們不是要破壞，而是要爭取他們應有的。我不應如此梁振英的。

我只有補償我的錯。
「我幫你去搵清潔劑番黎。」

凌晨找清潔劑! 我記憶中在灣仔街巿左右有惠康好像是24小時的。我們一直跑過去。因為他們怕記者影到，當然愈快愈好! 到了!

原來記錯，不是廿四的小時的。我們竟然絕望得問路邊士多有沒有清潔劑。而竟然他能在廁所找到一支用過的小裝藍威寶! 而竟然收我二十元!! 而竟然在回程時發現離警總不遠本來就有藥房未關門! 而竟然大支裝只賣二十八! 而竟然我們又再買兩瓶小小的洗甲水! 也是二十八!! 算吧..

我們又走回去。這時，變成有五六個青年，在一起用布和清水一起抺。他們也是路過幫忙的，也一樣不怕絕望地用水加布抺噴漆。在我們來回的這二十分鐘, 他們也真的成功抹去了一道油漆。清潔劑來了，大家很高興。他一邊抺遇一邊說
「都唔知係咪其實係建制派的人黎搞亂檔既。」繼續抹
甚至為了保護警隊那張BANNER, 他們不用洗甲水。女的，男的，拈高腳，把這道高牆都還原。抺的時候，有人走過說，電車站那邊也有塗鴉。

每個人清潔好後沒有埋怨，二話不說，帶著那淡淡的清潔劑味，繼續向電車站走。可惜，這次的塗鴉抺不掉，大家都有點失望，但沒有放棄嘗試，有女孩甚至用指甲去刮。我又冷水了，
「刮到, 你都無咁多指甲啦」
「試下嘛。」她說

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反佔中的你，你有權認為有奶便是娘，但請勿說學生被利用。他們比我們這些有利益無立場的成年人更清楚自己的訴求，更愛香港。

認為示威者是暴民的你，來看看那度被清潔好的牆，問問自己，你放狗時，狗隻小了便你也不會拿布去抺。

認為佔中最後會被煽動成暴亂的你，來看看他們的抺布。你甚至不能煽動他們放棄用漂白水抺噴漆。

亂拋催淚彈的你，來看看誰把你們的「加入警隊，實踐抱負」的橫幅抺好了，但「抱負」兩字可能有點退了色。你們炸開的是他們純潔的理想。

巿民不要隨便塗鴉，不要隨便放棄。或許每次我們都會在想「晒X氣」「刮到你都無咁多指甲啦」最少，他們嘗試過。對著高牆，我們都有恐懼，但願不要後退。

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airsuperiority said:

I honey don't know how many billion times I have explained how and why HKers are in the streets now and feeling this way, so I'm gonna give you some very simple answers or you can go find out by asking HKers how they feel.

1. If by economic reasons, it's the increased wealth disparity and property prices that the HKSAR isn't acknowledging.

2. Major grievances are social and cultural conflict. Clashes with new immigrants and those who flocked to HK for its social safety net, along with resource competition in HK. All these incidents are further aggravated by HKSAR's disregard for these issues and letting them cook. Under the British rule we at least didn't have these types of issues.

I highlighted 2 because that's the major grievances. Sure, economy is one but the real concerns stem from 2.

Don't forget all this began with high school students taking to the streets, so don't tell me they have jealousy towards mainland for its economy.

And like, seriously, if you guys seriously really base everything HK to economic reasons, then I have some really bad news for you:

a. Your life, or values, revolve around money fixes everything.

or

b. You don't understand HK enough to know the social issues and cultural issues that HK is going through and what it's like there right now, therefore all you can come up with is economic reasons and ignored all the other more important aspects.

I am seriously leaning on the latter as to why a lot of you keep bringing up economy as the only reason.

Life is not all about money, and money can't buy happiness.

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xiabonan said:

It may not be as terrible as you imagine. My dad was one of the students at Tiananmen square on 4th June, and he later joined the CCP and became a party official.

He still is now and takes great pride in his job, because he's long been involved in the policy making unit in my province and has contributed his parts in drafting one of the five year plans for the province.

He firmly believed that when he was there, he was there because he cared for the people the this country; and that when he later joined the party and started working, he too, was working for the people and this country.

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xiabonan said:

There's something that I want to point out to people here and especially our friends from HK.

The central government does take into account of public voices when they make decisions, and sometimes such public opinion may even impact judiciary processes (not really a good thing).

In the mainland, as long as it is not a political issue but rather a social or economical issue, once people express huge support for a kind of opinions on the Internet--they don't even need to take it to the streets--the government will more often than not respond correspondingly.

There has been many protests regarding environmental issues and protests happened, and the local government all gave in to people's wishes, although to be frank I think their wishes are sometimes very stupid.

But in HK's case, firstly the Beijing government will only respond to public opinions in the mainland and make decisions accordingly, secondly this issue is highly political in nature that the government may not give in easily.

To be honest I think the first issue should be of more concern to the HKers. I can tell you guys that after browsing through Chinese Internet the general feedback I've gotten is that people either don't really care, or they want the central government to go harsher on HK. At least not give in to their demands.

Their are few who "climb the wall" to support, but those are mainly rebellious students and teenagers who either have similar democratic ideals, or just want to do things differently to show their uniqueness.

Hence, the central government will mostly likely choose the 1.3 billion instead of the 7 million--and this public opinion is in rare coincidence with the central government's aims.

I think the second issue is not really an issue. If a village like Wukan can get direct democracy (in fact it's not just Wukan, many, many villages already have direct democratic elections), I don't see why HK as a SAR can't and shouldn't.

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