Hong Kong....Occupy Central Demonstrations....

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Re: Chinese General news resource thread

HKers don't know how lucky they are .......

One simple question ... when HK was under British ... did HKers choose their leader? ... NO, the British Govt did that for over 150 years ....

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“九十後給長輩的信”
親愛的各位長輩:
近日,自己同好多身邊的朋友都因為參與學運及佔中而受到不少從你們而來的壓力。
你們大多都不認同不理解我們的行動,或認為我們身在福中不知福,或認為我們根本沒深思熟慮過,只是受煽動,又或認為普選在以前也沒有,難道你大吵大鬧就會有?甚或質疑有普選難道就甚麼民生問題都消失?
作為九十後,明白長輩你們有很多寶貴的人生歷練與經驗,十分感謝你對我們的關心。我們敬重你,但也請你們尊重我們。
說真的,我們並非身在福中不知福。相反,我們就是知道香港能有現在的法治,廉潔,自由等是多有福氣,才要拼命去捍衛。沒有真正的民主體制,香港現有的這些福氣,只會慢慢化成泡影。
你們常指我們急進,告誡我們凡事都應循序漸進的。其實如果香港是可以慢慢變好,誰不歡迎?但問題是我們只看到近年香港是愈變愈差,根本看不到變好的曙光。就如今次人大公佈的方案竟比過去選特首的方法竟更保守退步....
我們希望真正有民主降臨香港,縱然我們知道有真普選也並非絕對的靈丹妙藥,但至少政府是由人民授權,就不至於如現在般偏向權貴而漠視人民。而真普選亦象徵著真正的自由。打個比喻,你的另一半是父母先選定3人,你只可於3人中選1人,你快樂嗎?或是,你希望可以自己作主? 縱使自己選的不一定最好,但最少你有自由戀愛的權利。自由的價值並非能以金錢衡量的,我們實在接受不了俯首當白羊,一世困在牧場。
在殖民地背景下成長的你們也很愛說,從前英國從沒給民主予香港,你們現在爭取甚麼?我們相信社會是會進步,時代巨輪是會不停轉動,100年前還没男女平等,200年前黑奴仍是合法,幾千年以來中國都是行帝制。如果人人都不去抗爭,人人都安於現狀,抱住“以前都係咁架喇”的心態,今日女士仍在紮腳了!
最後,你們可能覺得我們這群年輕人只得衝動兩隻字,但請相信我們作每一件事之先也有深思熟慮的。我們也有很多顧慮,但在大是大非面前,容不下讓我們怯退的空間,而且,我們知道有很多同路人默默扶持我們。
那怕以上的剖白,你覺得是錯漏百出,你仍是覺得我們天真幼稚。但請體諒我們這個年紀,接受不到自己已全沒鬥志理想,只會向現實低頭。希望你都願意,在堅固的高牆和撞牆破碎的雞蛋之間,總站在雞蛋的一方;不論高牆是多麼的正確,而雞蛋是多麼的錯誤。
一名九十後敬上

If someone can translate that will be great, otherwise I'll do it.
It's written by a gen Z

The bolded part says "Those of you who grew up in the colonial ages love to say, there's no democracy while under Britain, so what are you fighting for? We believe the society will advance, and the gears of time is always revolving. A hundred years ago there's no gender equality, 200 years ago black slavery is legal, and for thousands of years China is ruled by monarchy. If nobody fights for things, everyone will still be the same. If by holding to the attitude of "it's always been like this", women today will still be binding their feet!"

Whoever wrote this is so articulate and the writing's so beautiful, I am thoroughly impressed.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Registered Member
Give reasons why Hong Kong under British colonialsm, where profits flow to london and governor is appointed, is all great and dandy. While, China provides more and bailed you out of 1997 financial crisis, is disdained ?

You ask a very good question and I also note the later reply about property prices and cost of living etc. It makes the reality of London and the UK in general all the more bizarre through the intimation that Democracy is somehow the answer.

It does reinforce the view of HK being naive and immature as electors and simply too easy to manipulate by the spin machines of NGO's and Cults etc. The thought of the kind of demagogue that could be brought by these organisations to the fore, if allowed, makes my blood run cold.

Watching all this is of course heartbreaking and even more so for Mrs S and our family in the territory, but we are where we are and what we are watching is the classic moves of an attempted colour revolution.

Fortunately, this has been as slow as it has been obvious in the making, so I doubt anyone has been caught off guard or by surprise by any of this. I do get a sense of HK being used to "Quarantine" all these activities and interest groups and it is worth remembering that they are concentrated in the SAR and largely restricted from operating in the mainland. On that basis, the results have not been spectacular. It is painful though to see HK used as some sort of Petri Dish to put the forces of unrest and chaos under the microscope!

How will it play out? Well it seems that Beijing is putting out the message of "extremism" to describe the movement. Fortunately we are able to illustrate what that means in a strictly Democratic sense, thanks to Mrs Theresa May; the UK Home Secretary, addressing the Conservative party at its annual conference today.

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So its banning orders on organisations, no broadcasting and limited social media access for those that she feels "reasonably confident" are seeking to incite hatred and unrest and overturn UK values.
 
You just expose yourself as an anti immigrant right winger. "Immigrants don't adapt" and "immigrants are just here to profit from our social benefits" are the two most commonly used anti immigrant retoric all over the world. I see that you are a anti immigrant right winger when it comes to HK but you are a leftist multiculturalist when it comes to Canada. Right ? Isn't there a bit of inconsistency and hypocrisy on your part. The reality of immigration is a complex issue and how much the immigrants takes and contribute to a society is always difficult to define. That is as true for HK as it is for America, Europe or Canada.

No you're wrong. (I loved it when I can expose you guys are wrong)

1. I'm a first-generation immigrant, so I know how it feels and am not calling out others who aren't, or blindly brand everyone.
2. I hosted a dialogue where I interviewed even refugees and did a project for their rights for better health care, so what you're saying is like the calling a Jew a Nazi.
3. There are various accounts from various sources. In fact it's such a big issue, there were so much information, accounts on the internet and heated controversies that's also related to this topic towards government policies, loopholes, story accounts. The $6000 story was one at some point too. Anyways there are a lot, so when I refer to what I'm saying, I'm referring from specific examples where they are literally getting welfare and then sitting at home doing nothing while they actually crossed the border with lots of money. I don't make things up, and my statements are referring to those people. Other HKers who call out on that are also referring specifically to those people. I don't make up stories, and I know the group I'm targeting against.
4. I'm a vivid defender of immigrants for their right to speak their mother tongue, even in HK
5. I know Mandarin, so if I meet someone in HK who can't speak Mandarin, I use it without even really thinking about anything else. I don't make weird faces.
6. There are so many Chinese immigrants, I can safely say most of them earlier on are hard-working people. I've met a lot of retail clerks or other jobs for example where their Cantonese is accented, which of course tells me where they're from. However they worked hard and I felt and always believed this is the group that's also one of the pillars of HK.
7. Don't forget HK's immigration isn't strictly mainland only. There are Pakistanis and what not, and they work very hard and visible too. There are a lot of working mainland Chinese in HK
8. Thinking immigrants like that are racist. I can't stress how many times I've heard people say that and so no way in hell will I ever think or say the same towards others unless they are genuinely abusing the system, and when I call them out, I'm literally referring to those specific individuals.


I can literally go on, but I'll be bragging. I also find it quite pathetic how you actually underestimate that of me. If I really possess such attitude, I would be so hypocritical, double-standards, and racist, I can't even handle it myself, and if I can't even detect it or notice it, I must be stupid. Honestly if I'm such a bigot, I don't think I even have the right to talk about classism and privilege.

You find there's a hypocrisy, but of course you do and that's because you're wrong. Don't be so quick to assume and generalize next time. It's easy to make mistakes.

Me anti-immigrant right winger? I hope I won't laugh when I sleep tonight.
 
You ask a very good question and I also note the later reply about property prices and cost of living etc. It makes the reality of London and the UK in general all the more bizarre through the intimation that Democracy is somehow the answer.

It does reinforce the view of HK being naive and immature as electors and simply too easy to manipulate by the spin machines of NGO's and Cults etc. The thought of the kind of demagogue that could be brought by these organisations to the fore, if allowed, makes my blood run cold.

Watching all this is of course heartbreaking and even more so for Mrs S and our family in the territory, but we are where we are and what we are watching is the classic moves of an attempted colour revolution.

Fortunately, this has been as slow as it has been obvious in the making, so I doubt anyone has been caught off guard or by surprise by any of this. I do get a sense of HK being used to "Quarantine" all these activities and interest groups and it is worth remembering that they are concentrated in the SAR and largely restricted from operating in the mainland. On that basis, the results have not been spectacular. It is painful though to see HK used as some sort of Petri Dish to put the forces of unrest and chaos under the microscope!

How will it play out? Well it seems that Beijing is putting out the message of "extremism" to describe the movement. Fortunately we are able to illustrate what that means in a strictly Democratic sense, thanks to Mrs Theresa May; the UK Home Secretary, addressing the Conservative party at its annual conference today.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


So its banning orders on organisations, no broadcasting and limited social media access for those that she feels "reasonably confident" are seeking to incite hatred and unrest and overturn UK values.

Your answer. Doesn't hurt to look for answers sometimes.

Answers embedded in this response:



If someone can translate that will be great, otherwise I'll do it.
It's written by a gen Z

The bolded part says:
"Those of you who grew up in the colonial ages love to say, there's no democracy while under Britain, so what are you fighting for? We believe the society will advance, and the gears of time is always revolving. A hundred years ago there's no gender equality, 200 years ago black slavery is legal, and for thousands of years China is ruled by monarchy. If nobody fights for things, everyone will still be the same. If by holding to the attitude of "it's always been like this", women today will still be binding their feet!"

Whoever wrote this is so articulate and the writing's so beautiful, I am thoroughly impressed.
 

Brumby

Major
You just expose yourself as an anti immigrant right winger. "Immigrants don't adapt" and "immigrants are just here to profit from our social benefits" are the two most commonly used anti immigrant retoric all over the world. I see that you are a anti immigrant right winger when it comes to HK but you are a leftist multiculturalist when it comes to Canada. Right ? Isn't there a bit of inconsistency and hypocrisy on your part. The reality of immigration is a complex issue and how much the immigrants takes and contribute to a society is always difficult to define. That is as true for HK as it is for America, Europe or Canada.

Firstly you are stereotyping someone based on some statements made. How many countries in those region that you have named to base your conclusion has a one country two system arrangement as in HK? The group of individuals that are creating a burden on the HK system are not immigrants as your typical type. They drain the system (pregnant mothers) for the facilities and then return to their source of origin. The other type are the property speculators (that need to park their money) with their questionable source that create a bubble on prices that locals can no longer afford to have a decent place of their own.
 

Franklin

Captain
No you're wrong. (I loved it when I can expose you guys are wrong)

1. I'm a first-generation immigrant, so I know how it feels and am not calling out others who aren't, or blindly brand everyone.
2. I hosted a dialogue where I interviewed even refugees and did a project for their rights for better health care, so what you're saying is like the calling a Jew a Nazi.
3. There are various accounts from various sources. In fact it's such a big issue, there were so much information, accounts on the internet and heated controversies that's also related to this topic towards government policies, loopholes, story accounts. The $6000 story was one at some point too. Anyways there are a lot, so when I refer to what I'm saying, I'm referring from specific examples where they are literally getting welfare and then sitting at home doing nothing while they actually crossed the border with lots of money. I don't make things up, and my statements are referring to those people. Other HKers who call out on that are also referring specifically to those people. I don't make up stories, and I know the group I'm targeting against.
4. I'm a vivid defender of immigrants for their right to speak their mother tongue, even in HK
5. I know Mandarin, so if I meet someone in HK who can't speak Mandarin, I use it without even really thinking about anything else. I don't make weird faces.
6. There are so many Chinese immigrants, I can safely say most of them earlier on are hard-working people. I've met a lot of retail clerks or other jobs for example where their Cantonese is accented, which of course tells me where they're from. However they worked hard and I felt and always believed this is the group that's also one of the pillars of HK.
7. Don't forget HK's immigration isn't strictly mainland only. There are Pakistanis and what not, and they work very hard and visible too. There are a lot of working mainland Chinese in HK
8. Thinking immigrants like that are racist. I can't stress how many times I've heard people say that and so no way in hell will I ever think or say the same towards others unless they are genuinely abusing the system, and when I call them out, I'm literally referring to those specific individuals.


I can literally go on, but I'll be bragging. I also find it quite pathetic how you actually underestimate that of me. If I really possess such attitude, I would be so hypocritical, double-standards, and racist, I can't even handle it myself, and if I can't even detect it or notice it, I must be stupid. Honestly if I'm such a bigot, I don't think I even have the right to talk about classism and privilege.

You find there's a hypocrisy, but of course you do and that's because you're wrong. Don't be so quick to assume and generalize next time. It's easy to make mistakes.

Me anti-immigrant right winger? I hope I won't laugh when I sleep tonight.
Re read your own post. I quoted from what you have posted.
 
Honestly if you some of you guys are so quick to judge without finding answers to your questions, or don't do your own research, and yet never have real experiences to the culture or travel there, or already landed a conclusion before what I have to say, then please don't even bother asking me things because you're wasting my time and your own.

The purpose of having discussions with people from different places is so you can hear what they have to say about their side of the stories, so if you're gonna judge us or a place without knowing what it's like there, then next time just say "I have my conclusions so whatever you say I'm just asking without really actually opening to listen to what you have to say"

I come here to share my stories and what's happening at my hometown, but I feel like I'm taking jabs from several of you for a few days already with challenging remarks and statements one after another and even conclusions about what's happening without even knowing what is really happening there. Makes me wonder why my presence has any meaning sometimes.


Quite disappointed with the open-mindedness of some folks no offence.
 
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Re read your own post. That quote was from your post above.

Maybe I didn't state it clearly in my earlier post, but my post has been referring to a new breed of folks.

Also honestly how quick you are to condemn me seemed more like you're looking for something to nitpick. Maybe you may not mean it that way but I can tell you I feel a bit offended because you're painting me as someone that I totally am not.
 
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Re read your own post. I quoted from what you have posted.

And if you think those who shows up to drain resources are immigrants, then you are insulting immigrants. Please don't insult immigrants thank you.

I'm not sure if you're deliberately flamebaiting or what not, but I'm gonna let it go of what you've said and leave it as it is.

Next time you post, please leave that attitude of yours outside thanks. Such attitude is not for the sake of a good discussion. I've got no patience for this type of stuff, and if you think what I'm saying now is condescending, consider who started it first.
 
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Franklin

Captain
Maybe I didn't state it clearly in my earlier post, but my post has been referring to a new breed of immigrants.

Also honestly how quick you are to condemn me seemed more like you're looking for something to nitpick. Maybe you may not mean it that way but I can tell you I feel a bit offended because you're painting me as someone that I totally am not.

I'm not condemning you. You have the right to your own opinion and beliefs. You don't have to be defensive. I'm just pointing out that you are using the rhetoric of the far right to defend the protests.

Personally I neither condone nor condemn the protests. I'm sure that the people who are protesting have deep seated grievances. And as long as it remains peaceful they can continue for as long as they want.
 
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