HAL Tejas Jet Fighter

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
this is how the final version will look like
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the changes will be a longer fuselage,and heavier GE414 engine, higher air flow.
dimensions of GE404 and GE 414 are same


But again back to the single-seater (a good ide IMO) ... again a redesign for the naval-version too, additional cost and time lost !

Not that I do not understand each step forth and back - they all have their reasons and explanation, but I think it is a hint for something that - to say it politely - can be done better.

Deino
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
But again back to the single-seater (a good ide IMO) ... again a redesign for the naval-version too, additional cost and time lost !

Not that I do not understand each step forth and back - they all have their reasons and explanation, but I think it is a hint for something that - to say it politely - can be done better.

Deino

Deino, if you remember my criticism of the F-35 with regards to it being late, I have the same criticisms with regards to the LCA as well. It is also very late.

Due to obsolescence, ADA/IAF decided to improve the LCA by a pretty big margin, with AESA, modern EW suite, updated avionics and so on. It is obvious these changes require more time and costs more. So the IAF is doing its part to ensure the LCA is not irrelevant when it is in service. As for the N-LCA version, it is the first time that India is working on a carrier aircraft, hence delays and cost overruns will be acceptable.

If you have read the recent reports on the planned sixth gen program and the F-35, the Pentagon is already using the obsolescence card against the F-35 in favor of new development in order to get better deals from LM. ADA/HAL has avoided that with the development of the Mk2. It is obvious that making a jump from Block 5 to Block 30 directly will cost more money, but it is a very necessary jump as far as the LCA is concerned.
 

Nightsoldier

Just Hatched
Registered Member
It kinda serves the purpose of mass production though. I guess the 31 million price tag is because of the fact that we can't procure materials indigenously. Maybe if we set up industries which manufacture carbon composites, ceramic etc for the defense sector, the cost would reduce. Also, if DRDO EVER builds the Kaveri engine, the costs will further plummet to about 25 million I hope. That's a start. Besides, the Tejas is an invaluable learning experience. We have the AMCA and FGFA coming up anyway...

Good Cheers!
Adi.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Aksha we do not need reports every ten minutes about this fighter. Summarize several over several hours...or one a day would be sufficient.
 

aksha

Captain
more updates
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PART 1: Big Surprises In LCA Navy NP1's Ski-Jump Fight
When the first prototype of India's LCA Navy (NP1) roared off the ski-jump at the Shore-based Test Facility (SBTF) for the first time on December 20 last year, no one from the team observing the jet from the flightline and from telemetry stations knew that something unseen had happened. Something that would only become known later in the day when performance data was analysed. And it was good, solid news, much needed for a team that has seen little more than
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. Importantly, it was the first time the team felt it had an answer to the 'what use is this platform, really?' question.

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, had remained mostly on ground for the next two years, undergoing an extensive
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. In 2013, it climbed cautiously back into the air before going supersonic last year, and finally getting set for a shot off the simulated shore-based carrier deck in December 2014.

According to sources on Team LCA-N, "For a ski jump launch, the final design intent is to have a zero rate of climb after ramp exit to get the best performance of the aircraft. This places a great premium on the ability to fly at the maximum possible angles of attack with adequate control and also to have a complete understanding of the thrust available."

And that's where it gets interesting.

Top sources on the team say the NP1 was flown a few times conventially before the ski-jump test to soak up the thick sea-level air in Goa. As expected, engine performance was markedly better. Spirits were high, but as has become the norm on milestone tests in the Tejas programme, there was pervasive nervousness. Surprises can be nasty. And the ski-jump test would leave no recovery time if something went wrong. As the Team says, "The first attempt at any new activity is fraught with uncertainties and potential surprises. Given the 'leap off the edge' nature of the first launch, all the major possibilities of failure were identified and options to handle them were built into the plan."

The test flight team decided to lock 5.7 degrees as the minimum climb angle for the NP1 once it made the leap off the ski-jump. When the aircraft actually did roar into the sky, the actual minimum climb angle was observed to be in excess of 10 degrees. Also, the NP1 achieved an angle of attack after ramp exit of 21.6 degrees, giving the team healthy new margins to work with in terms of performance. Simply put, the aircraft performed better than the team ever thought it could.

Now you can argue that safety margins always allow for bumps in performance, but the number crunch that evening demonstrated that the NP1 had exceeded expectations healthily.

The test team's verdict: "This is certainly a welcome bonus for an aircraft that has been so often derided for lack of thrust, and this excess will be accounted for in future launches. Also the angle of attack after ramp exit reached 21.6 degrees which augers well for utilisation of even greater angles of attack for launch. It should certainly allay fears over the use of such high angles of attack and remove
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that has surrounded the utility of the programme."

The NP2 single seat naval fighter prototype that took to the air yesterday will join sea-level flight test next month and quickly demonstrate its own carrier compatibility before long. The LCA-N team, in the meanwhile, has its spirits up. The Indian Navy, which has ordered six of LCA Navy Mk.1 has indicated, albeit unofficially, that the Mk.1 platform is likely never to see actual carrier service. While the performance surprises of December aren't likely to change that, the numbers have changed. And that's something.
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OneIndia Special: NLCA NP-1 outperformed our expectations, says ADA

...............................................ADA Chief P S Subramanyam too agrees with Balaji while sharing inside details of the NP-1's performance. "The Goa campaign turned out to be a memorable one for all of us. It is inspiring when an aircraft performs more that what was expected during its flight evaluation stages. NP-I's performance was better than anticipated in comparison to estimates earlier made purely based on its flight tests at Bangalore," says Subramanyam..............................

...............
There are more prototypes to be added to flightline

Balaji said to meet the full missions requirements stipulated by the
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, three more prototypes will be rolled out in future. "We have a new programme with a higher thrust engine sanctioned under the LCA Navy Mk2 phase. It is aimed minimising the constraints of LCA Navy Mk-1. It will have significant changes in design to improve aerodynamics, landing gear & arrester hook optimization, structural design optimization, updated sensors, avionics and Flight Control System among others," says Balaji.................

..............The landing gear mass of the LCA (Navy) Mk-2 aircraft is likely to be reduced by 200-250 kg, albeit being capable of a higher take off mass. Prototypes likely to come from this Mk-2 flightline are NP-3 and NP-4 (both fighters). From the existing resources ADA has already begun the work for the third NLCA prototype which will be designated as NP-5, a trainer. Balaji says all trainers will be from the Mk-1 flightline......................

.................
ADA says the wealth of data collected from the maiden ski-jump mission has been fully analysed. "The areas needing attention have been identified. The CLAW (Control Law) and Flight Control System (FCS) software will be updated for higher performance. The Nose Landing Gear (NLG) extension was faster than predicted. Minor modifications to the NLG will also be done," says Balaji.

When compared to NP-1, one major addition on NP2 is the presence of a Multi-Mode Radar (MMR). The aircraft performance is expected to be similar to NP-1. "The focus on sensor and weapon capability demonstration will be on NP-2," says Balaji.................

More action lined up in Goa from March

Once the FCS software upgradation and minor rework on NLG is completed, NP-1 will hit Goa for the next phase of the campaign in March 2015. It will continue its ski-jump launches to progressively reduce margins till final performance levels are achieved. "Also, it is planned to initiate activities towards arrested recovery starting with dummy approaches on the landing area, ‘taxi-in' arrester hook engagements on to the arrester wire at the SBTF and final flight engagement," says Balaji.
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aksha

Captain
from livefist, more updates

PART 2: The Four 'Fixes' After LCA Navy's Ski-Jump Flight
The LCA Navy NP1's carrier compatibility test off the ski-jump in Goa last month yielded masses of valuable data for a team that hasn't been able to put the aircraft into the air even a fraction of the number of times it would have liked to by now. But while there was plenty to be at least somewhat cheered about, there were two major areas that the flight drew attention to. Two areas the team is focusing on fixing with all its resources:


1. The Control Law and Flight Control System (FCS) Software needs additional coding and updating to handle the higher performance of the platform. "This will enable extracting the best performance of the aircraft in a safe manner as the margins are progressively reduced," say sources on the team.

2. The second take-away was mechanical, and just as crucial: the NP1's nose landing gear extension routine was faster than predicted or expected. Sources on the team confirm that, "Minor modifications to the nose landing gear are in progress and would be available on the aircraft by end Jan 15."

3. Another lesson learned, according to team sources, is that design teams will need to be "even more pragmatic in keeping margins as excess reserves get compounded and could lead to load exceedence."

4. The team is also considering excessive airspeed to be something to look out for. "While on first appearances, excessive airspeed appears to be harmless, it could aggravate aircraft control problems if flight control failures are encountered," team sources said.

Once the 2 tangible fixes are complete, and operating procedures on the other two are in place, the scene shifts back to Goa in March for more ski jump flights, where the flight test team will work towards reducing margins to arrive at final performance levels -- the first final, or close to final operating parameters of the LCA Navy. "Also, it is planned to initiate activities towards arrested recovery starting with dummy approaches on the landing area, ‘taxi-in’ arrester hook engagements on to the arrester wire at the SBTF and final flight engagement," say team sources.

Questions have been raised over whether 'surprise' angle of attack and climb performance actually demonstrated problems with simulation studies, team sources said, "Extensive simulations had been made to predict landing gear loads and the behaviour of all other systems during the ski jump launch. The aircraft was extensively instrumented to enable validation of simulation. The landing gear loads and other system behaviour obtained from the actual ski jump launch were close to prediction."
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aksha

Captain
nlca update

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PART 3: The Official LCA Navy Mk.2 Wishlist

The Indian Navy funds 40% of the LCA-N fighter programme, and intends to purchase at least 46 LCA Navy Mk.2s, the more powerful and capable proposition based on the current Mk.1 platforms in flight test. Much more is known now about what the Mk.2 will really involve. But first a short dash back 12 years.

The LCA Navy programme was sanctioned in 2003. The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which had been entrusted with converting the standard air force variant, imagined it would take six-seven years to convert the platform into a naval prototype. Amazingly, the team at the time officially noted that the changes to the aircraft would be restricted to 15%. As we now know, things turned out quite differently.

A Team LCA-N official explains, "The major constraint of design space due to the existing LCA AF platform resulted in a sub-optimal design and compromises leading to the LCA Navy Mk-1 Variant being heavier than anticipated."

Six years into the project, it was officially noted by the ADA after months of discussions with the Indian Navy, that the LCA Navy Mk.1 wouldn't meet all the customer's capability requirements. These 'shortfalls' were put down to the platform's 'sub-optimal design'. It became imperative that a significantly more powerful and capable Mk.2 of the LCA Navy would be the platform that the Indian Navy would spend its real procurement rupees on.

In 2011, the ADA
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of its proposed Mk.2 for the IAF and Indian Navy. Apart from a brief wishlist of performance enhancements, not very much was clear. And to be fair, the team itself was awaiting greater clarity at the time.

Officially, according to Team LCA-N, "This programme (the LCA Navy Mk.2) is envisaged to minimize the constraints of LCA Navy Mk-1 and would have significant changes in design to improve aerodynamics, landing gear & arrester hook optimization, structural design optimization, updated sensors, avionics and flight control system. The landing gear mass of the LCA-Navy Mk.2 aircraft is likely to be reduced by 200-250 kg, albeit being capable of a higher take-off mass."

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INTERFACE OF THE UTTAM RADAR & LCA Mk,2
Mk.1 prototypes NP1 and NP2 are now firmly in flight test. Apart from the number of seats in their cockpits, there are other differences: the NP2 naval fighter prototype flies with a modified Israeli Elta EL/M-2023 multimode radar (MMR). Sources add, "In terms of aircraft performance the two Mk.1 prototypes are similar. In that sense, both the prototypes will contribute equally for the carrier compatibility tests from the SBTF. The focus on sensor and weapon capability demonstration will be on NP2."

The Mk.2 aims to sport the in-development L-273/Uttam (the project name, incidentally,
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) active array fire control radar being put together by the DRDO's Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE). According to official literature, the radar, intended to also be retrofitted on the Mk.1 aircraft that enter service,
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air-to-air multi-target detection and tracking, multi target air-to-air combat mode, high resolution raid assessment, high Resolution air-to-ground mapping (SAR mode), air to ground ranging, real beam mapping, doppler beam sharpening, ground moving target indication and tracking and terrain avoidance. In air-to-sea mode, sea search and multi target tracking, range signature and inverse synthetic aperture radar will apply. But that's just the radar.

The the No.5 prototype NP5 will be a Mk.1 twin-seat trainer prototype, the construction of which has already begin at HAL. The NP5 was proposed to save time and as a risk mitigation exercise using existing resources and funds.

The MoD is now all set to clear the third and fourth prototypes, NP3 & NP4, both to be single-seat fighter prototypes of the LCA Navy Mk.2, incorporating all airframe and platform changes, including aft fuselage changes to house the new, larger and more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 turbofan engine. Team LCA-N sources confirm that there will be changes in most sections of the airframe.
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