H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Equation said:

OR perhaps they had, they just don't show it off for any naysayers and doubters pleasure and pessimistic demand.

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I think ingratiation of egos can happen on either side of the China debate. I would be wary of it . And I do not think the PLA (or any serious security organization) is as motivated by pettiness as bored forum rascals like ourselves.

I think given what we know about the current state of the PLA's technological development (especially engines), I'm somewhat dubious that such a program has everything it needs to proceed just yet. There's also a problem of resource availability. AVIC is already very busy with the projects we do know about after all.

Bltizo said:

I think I know what you're talking about -- his CGIs of JH-XX were posted a little while ago as well, with similar proportions to those line drawings. Personally I feel like those CGIs were a little too chubby and not as tapered as the model suggests it is from the photo we have, but then again it's his interpretation, so fair game.

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Ah, but we must be careful judging width from profile views. Remember, the J-20 is supposed to have narrow stubby wings.

latenlazy said:

I think ingratiation of egos can happen on either side of the China debate. I would be wary of it . And I do not think the PLA (or any serious security organization) is as motivated by pettiness as the bored forum rascals that we are.

I think given what we know about the current state of the PLA's technological development (especially engines), I'm somewhat dubious that such a program has everything it needs to proceed just yet.

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Yeah, I've been wondering what the necessary components would be if they wanted to seriously develop this thing.

Assuming this is an 80 ton-ish bomber...

I think the engines would be the main issue, but given this thing doesn't need to be too nimble, I think they could stick on a pair of WS-15s and that would give it enough thrust to do supercruise, or at least convincing supersonic dash. They could even use WS-10s as stand in for prototype testing.

Apart from that, structurally developing such a large, stealthy aircraft which is meant to be supersonic capable would be a challenge as well (but not necessarily insurmountable).

Mission avionics, flight control system, etc would all of course present challenges. But all the above together I don't think would pose anymore of a challenge than designing and building J-20 and all its associated subsystems would be -- while J-20 is obviously a smaller aircraft, it has its own high demand requirements as well that JH-XX may not face (specifically maneuverability)

Bltizo said:

I tolerate it by trying to avoid those kind of discussions and calling them out when I see it, along with accepting that the very nature of anything China does is going to be sized up and compared along the spectrum you describe. Our cross to bear by being interested in these things in the first place.

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I read the posts on keyforum as well, there are few guys there who are blatantly trolling on Chinese topics. And the mods didn't do anything about it. Maybe is good I don't have an account over for my own happiness.

If at all. I have a theory that such a JH-XX program is frozen until they can develop adequate engines.

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I disagree with JH-XX waiting for adequate engines theory. Because I don't think J-20 and J-31 got adequate engines now. Yet.. they are still going forward full speed at least for J-20.

latenlazy said:

Ah, but we must be careful judging width from profile views. Remember, the J-20 is supposed to have narrow stubby wings.

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I wasn't talking about width per se -- I felt like Grassroot's CGIs and line art interpretation got the overall wingspan and length right, relatively speaking, but the fuselage seemed a bit too thick/fat.

JayBird said:

I read the posts on keyforum as well, there are few guys there who are blatantly trolling on Chinese topics. And the mods didn't do anything about it. Maybe is good I don't have an account over for my own happiness.



I disagree with JH-XX waiting for adequate engines theory. Because I don't think J-20 and J-31 got adequate engines now. Yet.. they are still going forward full speed at least for J-20.

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Different priorities and different mission profiles. The J-20 and J-31 are tactically flexible platforms. They can be mission capable and perform a portion of their duties with inferior engines. A supersonic bomber/striker is very specialized. It can either cruise in and out of enemy territory to drop its payload, before air defences can do something about it, or it can't.

latenlazy said:

Different priorities and different mission profiles. The J-20 and J-31 are tactically flexible platforms. They can be mission capable and perform a portion of their duties with inferior engines. A supersonic bomber/striker is very specialized. It can either cruise in and out of enemy territory to drop its payload, before air defences can do something about it, or it can't.

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A supersonic bomber/striker could also alter its mission profile or standard operating procedure if it were equipped with less than optimal engines as well, in a way where it would still provide very useful additional strike capabilities but put itself at less risk due to inferior engines... obviously it would depend on how much less optimal such engines were, but still.

Bltizo said:

I wasn't talking about width per se -- I felt like Grassroot's CGIs and line art interpretation got the overall wingspan and length right, relatively speaking, but the fuselage seemed a bit too thick/fat.

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I honestly believe there is something about Grassroot posting that line art at this time again after already posted much better detailed CGI arts before. Maybe the project got restarted or there is some break through with the project.

Make no sense for him to post that line art at this time if everything is as before. Maybe is my wishful thinking...

Bltizo said:

I wasn't talking about width per se -- I felt like Grassroot's CGIs and line art interpretation got the overall wingspan and length right, relatively speaking, but the fuselage seemed a bit too thick/fat.

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Hard to say, but I think Grassroot's design was meant to fit a bigger weapons bay.

Bltizo said:

Yeah, I've been wondering what the necessary components would be if they wanted to seriously develop this thing.

Assuming this is an 80 ton-ish bomber...

I think the engines would be the main issue, but given this thing doesn't need to be too nimble, I think they could stick on a pair of WS-15s and that would give it enough thrust to do supercruise, or at least convincing supersonic dash. They could even use WS-10s as stand in for prototype testing.

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TBH, I really think any viability for such a design rests on the WS-15.

Bltizo said:

A supersonic bomber/striker could also alter its mission profile or standard operating procedure if it were equipped with less than optimal engines as well, in a way where it would still provide very useful additional strike capabilities but put itself at less risk due to inferior engines... obviously it would depend on how much less optimal such engines were, but still.

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Payload. That's the problem. How much payload would you have to sacrifice to use inferior engines? Would the sacrifice in payload make the design worthwhile to bring into service in a limited form? It may not even be worth considering until they can develop a fully capable design given the multitude of other projects they're currently juggling.

JayBird said:

I honestly believe there is something about Grassroot posting that line art at this time again after already posted much better detailed CGI arts before. Maybe the project got restarted or there is some break through with the project.

Make no sense for him to post that line art at this time if everything is as before. Maybe is my wishful thinking...

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Even if this project is live, it may be internal within a department as a concept, not as a project the PLA is currently interested in. Many possible stages that could lead to mockups and designs before a project is actually picked up.

EDIT: Oh god, I have committed the unfathomable. I triple posted. Sorry...