Gunman murders 32 at VA Tech

fishhead

Banned Idiot
I find it's quite shocking that in US as a free media society the public are denied to access the full information. Take Lu Gang's case of 16 years ago as an example, Mr. Lu sent letters to the media before he commited the shooting but they're not allowed to be published even today, while in China his last letter to his sister, in Chinese was allowed to go to public in the full length. Thanks to that it helped us in understanding the whole event.

In Cho's case he sent the whole pack of material to NBC, and why they're not published to the public? In my view, labeling him as the person with mental illness is just too simple a way to describe the incident, in that way you basically spare him of any social responsiblity, and reduce the whole thing to a personal health issue. As the person with health problem, he won't be held accountable for his action, even the killer didn't think that way.

Cho obviously has his own opinion, just like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Harris, and Dylan Klebold etc. None of them are mentally ill, otehrwise they will be the sick men, not evil men. I hope the full material related to the case is released to the public so there will be a good understanding what actually happened. If the media can released OLB's speech in the full length, it's bizarre to see the publich can only access the official provided and media filtered version of killer's message.

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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
I find it's quite shocking that in US as a free media society the public are denied to access the full information.

Jeez, the accused rights are protected from public scrutiny so they may recive a fair trial if need be...NBC did the right thing by turning that information over to the authorities. Only small snipites of the tape have been released to the public. This is done because there is an ongoing police investigation into this horffic crime.

Lets say for instance the gunman was captured. And the full volume of those tapes had been released to the public before his trail. How would the gunman recieved fair trail if everyone had access to the tapes? How would a fair and impartial jury been selected?

Oh yea I'm no lawyer....
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
Then I hope the whole information will be released to the public after the legal activities.

It will be irresponsible for the victims just to describe the killer is man with mental illness, which is a medical term not a term for social responsibility of person.

Mr Lu's case was thoroughly discussed in Chinese medias, novels and movies were made based on his letter. And I note that since then there hasn't been a mass shooting case like that by Chinese students studying in US.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Then I hope the whole information will be released to the public after the legal activities.

It will be irresponsible for the victims just to describe the killer is man with mental illness, which is a medical term not a term for social responsibility of person.
My guess is that eventually his entire "manifesto" will be releaed, along with most of his videos and pics.

NBC has already released quite a bit of it, but I personally feel, that out of respect for the victims and their families (as well as for the legal issues), that this release was too soon. They should be allowed to mourn without sensationalizing the criminal...which this mass media exposure is doing.

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As to "social responsibility"...well, although I realize that there are various factors that influence a person's behavior and that some of those demand accountability by society itself at various levels...still, by far and away the chief influence, by orders of magnitude, are the choices the individual makes themself.
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
It may happens. My view is that as a murturing society you got to educate the mass that even some one is better off than you or richer than you or you're not treated fairly it's not a reason to commit the mass killing just to vent your angry.

I understand that using "mental illness" is to degrade some one's status as a person, same thing both true in Western or Chinese societies. But it's not a muturing way.

Mr. Lu was not called "mentally ill" by Chinese. After reading his letter you will know he is a very honest man, actually among the brillintest science student who doesn't know how to make a lie. But still he commited a terrible crime, even an honest man can do that.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
It may happens. My view is that as a murturing society you got to educate the mass that even some one is better off than you or richer than you or you're not treated fairly it's not a reason to commit the mass killing just to vent your angry.

I understand that using "mental illness" is to degrade some one's status as a person, same thing both true in Western or Chinese societies. But it's not a muturing way.

Mr. Lu was not called "mentally ill" by Chinese. After reading his letter you will know he is a very honest man, actually among the brillintest science student who doesn't know how to make a lie. But still he commited a terrible crime, even an honest man can do that.
Mentally ill is a condition, not a social statement. At least that is what it should be.

Depraved does not mean a person is stupid. Mentally ill does not mean a person cannot think and cannot be brilliant.

After hearing only a small part of what this criminal had to say, at least IMHO, it is clear that he was off his rocker...meaning, he was crazy. And not just crazy, but as it turns out, criminally insane.

It is true that smart and brilliant people can also commit horrible crimes...both individually and institutionally. One need look no further thatn the Nazi party of Germany in World War II to know this. Brilliant scientists, brilliant strategists (in some cases), brilliant and charismatic leaders all committing horrendous acts of brutality and criminality against entire nations and classes of people.
 

fishhead

Banned Idiot
Am I surprised for this? Not at all. That's why I said we need to know the whole picture, the whole society need to know that.

Va. Tech Shooter Was Laughed At

Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness and the strange way he talked when he was a schoolboy in the Washington suburbs, former classmates say.

Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

Cho shot 32 people to death and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. The high school classmates' accounts add to the psychological portrait that is beginning to take shape, and could shed light on Cho's state of mind in the video rant he mailed to NBC in the middle of his rampage at Virginia Tech.

In the often-incoherent video, the 23-year-old Cho portrays himself as persecuted and rants about rich kids.

"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," says Cho, who came to the U.S. in 1992 and whose parents work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."

Among the victims of the massacre were two other Westfield High graduates: Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson. Both young women graduated from the high school last year. Police said it is not clear whether Cho singled them out.

Stephanie Roberts, 22, a fellow member of Cho's graduating class at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school.

"I just remember he was a shy kid who didn't really want to talk to anybody," she said. "I guess a lot of people felt like maybe there was a language barrier."

But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.

"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said Wednesday. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."

Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus - Christina Lilick - found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. Lilick went to the same high school as Cho, according to Lilick's Facebook page. Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as "the question mark kid."

"I don't know if she knew that it was him for sure," Heck said. "I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door."

Heck added: "She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite."

Lilick could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.

Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down, and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was "a real low mutter, like a whisper."

As part of an exam in Spanish class, students had to answer questions in Spanish on tape, and other students were so curious to know what Cho sounded like that they waited eagerly for the teacher to play his recording, she said. She said that on the tape, he did not speak confidently but did seem to know Spanish.

Wilder recalled high school teachers trying to get him to participate, but "he would only shrug his shoulders or he'd give like two-word responses, and I think it just got to the point where teachers just gave up because they realized he wasn't going to come out of the shell he was in, so they just kind of passed him over for the most part as time went on."

She said she was sure Cho probably was picked on in middle school, but so was everyone else. And it didn't seem as if English was the problem for him, she said. If he didn't speak English well, there were several other Korean students he could have reached out to for friendship, but he didn't, she said.

Wilder said Cho wasn't any friendlier in college, where "he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I'd always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I'd seen him for six years, but he'd always just look right past you like you weren't there."

On Wednesday, NBC received a package containing a rambling and often incoherent 23-page written statement from Cho, 28 video clips and 43 photos - many of them showing Cho, in a military-style vest and backward baseball cap, brandishing handguns. A Postal Service time stamp reads 9:01 a.m. - between the two attacks on campus.

The package helped explain one mystery: where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire, at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said Thursday that the material contained little they did not already know. Flaherty said he was disappointed that NBC decided to broadcast parts of it.

"I just hate that a lot of people not used to seeing that type of image had to see it," he said.

On NBC's "Today" show Thursday, host Meredith Vieira said the decision to air the information "was not taken lightly." Some victims' relatives canceled their plans to speak with NBC because they were upset over the airing of the images, she said.

"I saw his picture on TV, and when I did I just got chills," said Kristy Venning, a junior from Franklin County, Va. "There's really no words. It shows he put so much thought into this and I think it's sick."

There has been some speculation, especially among online forums, that Cho may have been inspired by the South Korean movie "Oldboy." One of the killer's mailed photos shows him brandishing a hammer - the signature weapon of the protagonist - and in a pose similar to one from the film.

The film won the Grand Prix prize at the Cannes Film Festival in 2004. It is about a man unjustly imprisoned for 15 years. After escaping, he goes on a rampage against his captor.

Authorities on Thursday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

Associated Press writers Allen G. Breed, Vicki Smith, Sue Lindsey and Justin Pope in Blacksburg, Va., Matt Barakat in Richmond, Va., Colleen Long and Tom Hays in New York, and Lara Jakes Jordan and Sarah Karush in Washington contributed to this report.

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fishhead

Banned Idiot
And I will copy again what I quoted yesterday from a crime physicologist:

Most horrible things are done by pretty normal folks, no much different than people we run into on daily basis, and most terrible thing may come out from victims of bullying, at the time when they strike back.

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Scratch

Captain
That is a strange statement, IMO. If somebody feels disrespected or something like that, and takes revange by killing people, he isn't "normal" anymore, but insane.
That does of course not mean that you see it when you look at that person. You may pretty well run across someone like that without noticing.
And if a student doesn't want to speak in school for whatsoever reason, you should have acted already back then, IMO; since I don't think it to be "normal" behaviour.

Anyway, in such incidences I'm generally rather against the complete releasing of the "statements" of these persons and debating it publicly in full detail.
Becuase it may bring some risks with it, IMO.
At first it might "inspire" others. And it may in some way justify what that person did. Because he feels disrespected and wants to show it to the world. Broad media coverage would only give him a stage and make him achieve his goal.
Of couse it should be analized by the proper people. But just bringing the tragedy/violence to the public doesn't offer any more valuable information, wich should be the task of the news media.
It just makes violence look normal, and new children then grow up with that view.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Am I surprised for this? Not at all. That's why I said we need to know the whole picture, the whole society need to know that.

Va. Tech Shooter Was Laughed At

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.
Sorry, but anyone who reacts to such incidents in their liofe by killing 32 innocent people is not normal, or anything close to it.

I do not know a single person in my 51 years of life who has not been made fun of, joked about, or been slighted by others, probably on numerous occassions in their life.

I have been made fun of over my name, my Texas accent, the color of my hair, being bow-legged, my religion, how many kids I have, the type of pickup truck I drive, and numerous, numerous other issues over the years. I believe most people are.

It is not nromal to react to that by deciding that society needs to suffer as a whole and then killing 32 people over it. it is seriously depraved and unhinged.

We all pray some day for a more perfect and understanding and kinder society...but we are not there yet...and probably far from it.
 
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