Germany Carl Zeiss, heart of Dutch ASML Lithography Equipment.

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antiterror13

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With additional 120 days for TSMC cranked out parts for Huawei that plus what Huawei already in stored, i read a report somehwere that Huawei could last two yrs. Enough time for SMIC to come out with new process
Also in the pipeline is China own lithography equipment, supposedly debut this year.
But overall, its a war and the clock is ticking

SMIC is supported.by Chinese government, it will go rogue against US orders. Those equipments by US companies can be obtained from other channels.
Buy from second hand. They are not state of arts.
Confisticate TSMC fab in Nanjing if have to.
Fujian fab for Dram full of equipments is sitting idle, they can sell those.

I don't think confiscate TSMC fab in Nanjing is a good move. I think we will have stable US president in Jan 2021, not necessarily better but obviously smarter and an adult. I think Huawei smartphone business would be fine, it would suffer but nowhere near the end
 

Hadoren

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Why not offer to donate a billion masks to the Netherlands in exchange for ASML’s machines?
 
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adiru

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I don't think confiscate TSMC fab in Nanjing is a good move. I think we will have stable US president in Jan 2021, not necessarily better but obviously smarter and an adult. I think Huawei smartphone business would be fine, it would suffer but nowhere near the end

I wouldn't bet /count on it, as a Chinese American in Texas, the beat on the street is Trump will win in November
In any case, China this is HUGE wakeup call to all Chinese people everywhere, and China needs to have all its options and contingencies mapped out and ready...
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
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Why not offer to donate a billion masks to the Netherlands in exchange for ASML’s machines?
Dutch government is sacred being economically sanctioned by US. This path is No Go.

Now anybody can make masks. Low ended commodity goods.

Plus countries around world are opening up their economies. Dutch doesnt need 1 billion masks.
 

adiru

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Dutch government is sacred being economically sanctioned by US. This path is No Go.

Now anybody can make masks. Low ended commodity goods.

Plus countries around world are opening up their economies. Dutch doesnt need 1 billion masks.
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based on link : ""At the end of May this year, according to Dutch media reports, the Chinese chip giant “Yangtze Storage” shipped a $72 million lithography machine ordered from ASML to Wuhan, Hubei. ""

does know if any ASML units actually was successfully delivered to China in the end? wasn't that one destroyed in a mysterious factory fire?
 

tidalwave

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based on link : ""At the end of May this year, according to Dutch media reports, the Chinese chip giant “Yangtze Storage” shipped a $72 million lithography machine ordered from ASML to Wuhan, Hubei. ""

does know if any ASML units actually was successfully delivered to China in the end? wasn't that one destroyed in a mysterious factory fire?

No that EUV one cost $120 million ordered by SMIC.
The fire most likely work of sabotage
 

adiru

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Nope its only 16nm. But it should be the latest optical lithography equipment capable of pseudo 7nm.

So the single EUV $120 million machine that was destroyed in the factory fire, did China just purchase one machine to take a look at it for reverse engineer/ reference purposes or was the intent to have something as a stop gap in case US cut China off just like it did a few days ago? I guess I'm asking is it the fire was most likely work of sabotage it seems someone went to lots of trouble to prevent China from obtaining even just one of the machines, but what would/could China have done with that one machine? Surely it alone would'nt have saved Huawei or met the demands of Huawei's needs by itself right? or was that just the beginning and China was hoping to order lots more in the future? or maybe it was to deprive China the opportunity to catch up quickly with a working reference already in hand?

Given what happened with TSMC, Greenland, etc do you think US will try to do forced tech transfer/buyout ASML and german lens companies next? It seems COVID gave it the perfect cover for QE infinite, essentially going on shopping spreee at the expense of the rest of the world or viewed another way its akin to grabbing the supply chain of the world by the you know what without even having to pay for it
 

tidalwave

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So the single EUV $120 million machine that was destroyed in the factory fire, did China just purchase one machine to take a look at it for reverse engineer/ reference purposes or was the intent to have something as a stop gap in case US cut China off just like it did a few days ago? I guess I'm asking is it the fire was most likely work of sabotage it seems someone went to lots of trouble to prevent China from obtaining even just one of the machines, but what would/could China have done with that one machine? Surely it alone would'nt have saved Huawei or met the demands of Huawei's needs by itself right? or was that just the beginning and China was hoping to order lots more in the future? or maybe it was to deprive China the opportunity to catch up quickly with a working reference already in hand?

Given what happened with TSMC, Greenland, etc do you think US will try to do forced tech transfer/buyout ASML and german lens companies next? It seems COVID gave it the perfect cover for QE infinite, essentially going on shopping spreee at the expense of the rest of the world or viewed another way its akin to grabbing the supply chain of the world by the you know what without even having to pay for it
$120 million is alot of money. Its SMIC entire previous year profit.

They ordered it for R&D to develop true 7nm process and 5nm. It will take time


For production they will need to order more.

Looks like EUV from ASML is no go path. It has to self developed.

SMIC should use that 120 million down payment ask for discount and order 2 more latest optical lithography for current fab expansion. They need it anyway.

Just forget EUV with ASML

China needs to stockpile ASML latest optical lithography equipment just in case US putting pressure on Dutch to stop that.one too.
 
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