Fourth Taiwan Strait Crisis

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Ok so you're saying that Taiwan is part of China, so the US landing on China instigates a war between....China and the US?

Yet then China will use that to take over Taiwan? Seems like lots of excuses trying to blame the US for the reunification that China has desired for decades. If Taiwan is really part of China, you shouldn't need some visit from a foreign person to take it back - that's pathetic, it's yours go and get it.
It's pathetic you don't even seem to have an ounce of understanding of the history but you try to waddle into this thread.

Are you aware that the government in Taiwan was defeated in the Chinese civil war and thus is hostile to the PRC? Are you aware that Taiwan is a land they they call home and are unwilling to give it up despite it clearly being a part of China, something that they themselves admitted, simply differing in that they wished at first to rule all of China instead of the CPC? Are you aware that to take Taiwan today could get quite bloody, which may not be the case later on?

America's action here has no purpose but to try to arouse anger in China, because China is surpassing America but America can't do anything about it. That's why it's instigating. China doesn't need any excuse from Pelosi or other to retake the ROC when the time is right, however, China will also not shy away from it if that time is forcefully made into the present due to independence declaration. China's would-be invasion of the ROC has nothing to do with Pelosi. Your whole post sounds like you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
That's the one area where they could have handled it better. They need to do a better job at setting expectations.

"If that is their angle, then they never should have started with the rhetoric of fire and death."

This kind of rhetoric happens all the time though. The PRC's not the only one who does it. Trump threatened "fire and fury" comments, Obama's red line with Syria, even Russia threatening Finland and NATO. It's a good thing not every major nation feels the need to follow up words with actions, or else humanity would've destroyed itself a long time ago. The PRC's reputation will recover from this. What people will remember in the long run is Pelosi provoked but China showed restraint. That's a win for China.

Massive understatement. They handled the thing disastrously. It was a propaganda Hindenburg.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
How about the other smaller nations? If China becomes a warmonger, many smaller nations would be much more wary of even working with China. Why do you think China spends so much time working with those smaller nations and cultivating win win ties with them? It’s because not being a warmonger reassures those nations that China won’t abuse its power.
That's bull. I grew up in the Philippines. The Chinese don't get respect because we're not FEARED since most of Chinese history, ancient and especially modern China. All they know about China is that it's a commie country, and that most of the stuff they buy are made in China but it sucks in quality -- the usual stereotype on Chinese made products.

Most people don't appreciate the challenges that the PVA faced and dealt with against the American led UN forces in Korea. Filipinos are however more than aware of how the Vietnamese fought against the Americans and have a sense of trepidation and respect to the Vietnamese Commies.

Which is why despite China's recent military procurement and modernization the Philippines and vast amount of Filipinos don't have an inherent fear of China’s military. Why do you think despite huge power differentials prior administrations were belligerent against China? They don't fear the PLA because of severe underestimation and the fact that they have Uncle Sam as their defense treaty ally that will fight for and with them against China. This is the uncomfortable fact you need to understand and accept. Which is why the latest head scratching move by the PLA was f..ng weak. Their forces are for what? Show? What is good of having those military hardwares if all they could muster is a dress rehearsal of sorts.

People respect power especially if that power is exercise in a way that can demonstrate Supreme capability.
 

JewPizza

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think the majority of the people in China do not want a war.

China need to place economic sanctions on America for this visit. Let them pay for this visit litterally.
Let's be realistic here. How economic independent is China right now? Can China afford to place sanctions on America and if so, how long?
Take territory from ROC, its simple as that. Not taking will be a serious defeat, taking will be a major victory.
Okay, so that's 3 things Xi can do to guarantee his reelection. I'm curious to see Chinese netizens reactions to the military exercises on Taiwan.
 

kbecks

New Member
Registered Member
Are you aware that the government in Taiwan was defeated in the Chinese civil war and thus is hostile to the PRC?

Yes....that's literally why they exist. This doesn't mean one side is correct or valid compared to the other in their claim.

Are you aware that Taiwan is a land they they call home and are unwilling to give it up despite it clearly being a part of China

Part of China in what sense? Historically? Well borders change over time friend.

America's action here has no purpose but to try to arouse anger in China,

America's action is to support Taiwan and it's quest for freedom, China's feelings are of no concern.

because China is surpassing America but America can't do anything about it

Is that why the US has done things like this for decades? It's not about surpassing someone, it's about Taiwan's independence and always has been.

China's would-be invasion of the ROC has nothing to do with Pelosi.

Yea I agree, that's literally my point. People on here are saying that Nancy's visit will be the cause for a war and invasion of Taiwan, which is ridiculous.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
I posted this in r/Sino under the title "Some thoughts on the Taiwan situation":

I understand people here are rubbed raw by the current situation. I certainly count myself among that number - on an emotional level, I would have loved nothing more than to see Nancy Pelosi plummet to her death in a fireball - but there's something far more important than momentary emotional release: victory. What the yawping chimpanzees on this site (hi, lurker) and other Western social media don't and can't ever understand is that victory encompasses more than victory on Twitter and Reddit. With that in mind, let's take a look at the stakes China is playing for and what it stands to win.

Today China is able to defeat the US in a localized, high-intensity war within the First Island Chain. This wasn't the case even a decade ago and certainly not during the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996; the PLA today is unrecognizable from what it used to be a quarter century ago. But there is still much to be done even with all the progress that has been made - China still can't achieve a decisive victory over the US throughout the western Pacific in places like Guam and Hawaii. To strengthen the PLA to that degree will require at least the remainder of this decade and very likely well into the next. Not only that, but China's various self-sufficiency drives in sectors like semiconductors and energy will have borne fruit by then - today a quarter of all new cars sold in China are electric, how do you think an oil blockade will function when the vast majority of cars on Chinese roads are electric? Similarly, what does TSMC or any other company matter to China when it can produce the world's most advanced chips for itself?

Any serious examination of the present geopolitical situation will invariably lead one to conclude that the longer China can defer a war with the United States, the better. Conversely, the sooner the US can bring about a war with China, the better its chances of derailing China's rise. Given this, it is of paramount importance not to overreact to any US provocation like the clown Pelosi taking her circus to Taiwan. Shooting her out of the sky - satisfying as that would be - is handing the US the pretext it needs on a silver platter. China's response to her provocation is already playing out - China has announced the largest scale exercises in decades and will include military activities in Taiwan's "territorial" waters. This is a very important step, especially if repeated, as it would normalize PLA activity in what was heretofore accepted as Taiwanese "territory". There are other things China can do along this line if it has a flair for the dramatic, like flying aircraft over Taiwan itself. If you want to get really nutty, China can detonate a nuclear weapon near Taiwan (far enough not to cause physical damage, near enough to be seen and make a point).

However, what China will not do is provoke a war before it's ready for it. What's ready for it? In my estimation, it's China having multiple nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, hundreds on long range stealth bombers, more than a hundred highly capable nuclear attack submarines, a nuclear arsenal at parity with America's, etc. Obviously, China has none of this now and that's what it needs to establish complete escalation dominance in the western Pacific. The highest priority is to develop and deploy these systems as quickly as possible and disrupt any US effort to veer China off-track.

When China is ready, things change almost incomprehensibly. War will not come as a result of an American provocation. It will not be preceded by threats and angry statements. It will come swiftly and quietly and for no other reason than China can win it.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
I posted this in r/Sino under the title "Some thoughts on the Taiwan situation":

I understand people here are rubbed raw by the current situation. I certainly count myself among that number - on an emotional level, I would have loved nothing more than to see Nancy Pelosi plummet to her death in a fireball - but there's something far more important than momentary emotional release: victory. What the yawping chimpanzees on this site (hi, lurker) and other Western social media don't and can't ever understand is that victory encompasses more than victory on Twitter and Reddit. With that in mind, let's take a look at the stakes China is playing for and what it stands to win.

Today China is able to defeat the US in a localized, high-intensity war within the First Island Chain. This wasn't the case even a decade ago and certainly not during the Third Taiwan Strait Crisis in 1996; the PLA today is unrecognizable from what it used to be a quarter century ago. But there is still much to be done even with all the progress that has been made - China still can't achieve a decisive victory over the US throughout the western Pacific in places like Guam and Hawaii. To strengthen the PLA to that degree will require at least the remainder of this decade and very likely well into the next. Not only that, but China's various self-sufficiency drives in sectors like semiconductors and energy will have borne fruit by then - today a quarter of all new cars sold in China are electric, how do you think an oil blockade will function when the vast majority of cars on Chinese roads are electric? Similarly, what does TSMC or any other company matter to China when it can produce the world's most advanced chips for itself?

Any serious examination of the present geopolitical situation will invariably lead one to conclude that the longer China can defer a war with the United States, the better. Conversely, the sooner the US can bring about a war with China, the better its chances of derailing China's rise. Given this, it is of paramount importance not to overreact to any US provocation like the clown Pelosi taking her circus to Taiwan. Shooting her out of the sky - satisfying as that would be - is handing the US the pretext it needs on a silver platter. China's response to her provocation is already playing out - China has announced the largest scale exercises in decades and will include military activities in Taiwan's "territorial" waters. This is a very important step, especially if repeated, as it would normalize PLA activity in what was heretofore accepted as Taiwanese "territory". There are other things China can do along this line if it has a flair for the dramatic, like flying aircraft over Taiwan itself. If you want to get really nutty, China can detonate a nuclear weapon near Taiwan (far enough not to cause physical damage, near enough to be seen and make a point).

However, what China will not do is provoke a war before it's ready for it. What's ready for it? In my estimation, it's China having multiple nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, hundreds on long range stealth bombers, more than a hundred highly capable nuclear attack submarines, a nuclear arsenal at parity with America's, etc. Obviously, China has none of this now and that's what it needs to establish complete escalation dominance in the western Pacific. The highest priority is to develop and deploy these systems as quickly as possible and disrupt any US effort to veer China off-track.

When China is ready, things change almost incomprehensibly. War will not come as a result of an American provocation. It will not be preceded by threats and angry statements. It will come swiftly and quietly and for no other reason than China can win it.

I think we all agree with this in sentiment. The issue is the botched rhetoric before the visit happened. Why play it up if this is the best China can do?
 

sunnymaxi

Major
Registered Member
What can Xi do that guarantees him a 3rd term and satisfy the public?
  • More intrusive military exercises on Taiwan(will take place from 8/4 - 8/7)
  • Increase military budget by 2% or more GDP
Is there anything else Xi can do?
people needs to calm down. Xi is going to get unprecedented 3rd term soon. nothing can change that.

another misconception, people will revolt , CPC lost its trust. it is almost impossible to disconnect CPC with Chinese people. what they have achieved in past 40 years. people who are familiar with China knows misery of PLA and economy very well back in 90's. indeed China took L this time. will harm the credibility of party and country. but CPC still stands tall.

but today's incident actually woke up CPC and they knows, what need to do. nuke arsenal might officially announce in coming years or defense budget can increase too.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
What happens when her plane gets intercepted and lands in Taiwan anyway? If you're not going to shoot, don't bother.
The shooting down of the plane isn't the objective though. The objective or at least what could have been tried was that China is prepared to escalate and establish it's sovereignty it purports to hold as sacrosanct --- as the CPC has expressed numerous times. While also showing a degree of measured restraint to show to the barbarian world China is not a barbaric country. Not to mention that what it expresses rhetorically is only matched if not exceeded by her actions.

It does remain to be seen if this latest Chinese action will be interpreted by her enemies and friends alike. Most importantly, how are the fence sitters going to see the Chinese action and reaction for their own domestic calculus as well. I really hate to see the interpretation that if China couldn't even be bothered with some drastic action short of war against it's red line then why should countries like the Philippines and other lesser power around China's periphery be bothered to ally with her militarily or do away with their existing alliance (subservience) with Uncle Sam?

As you pointed out in your prior posts, if China isn't willing to do anything out of the ordinary or shocking then don't bother doing anything at all. Perhaps, they should have just taken that same line of tactic to avoid being perceived as a paper tiger or their force as nothing but for a dog and pony show.
 
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