FFG 054/054A Thread

[crobato]

So the rule is that the one that predicts or estimates or just plain and simple quess obvious-to-the-eyes-as-revealed things right, wins and is the most respectfull and realible source?

Of course.

Results speak for themselves. Especially in the court of public opinion.

...And I tought it had something to do with research, depth and accuracy of details...

Obviously you draw the line on breaking physics, or beating technological or engineering impossibilities. Unfortunatly Pinkov isn't very good on technological issues either as you can see from the ASBM example.

 

[Gollevainen]

Yeas but anyone can quess what they want and its down to odd's that determine which one is right. Quessing something doesen't reveal what made you come to that conclusion, it doesen't reveal how much you actually know about the subject, all it does is to show that you quessed right.

As for Pinkov, I never stated that he is my hero or that I belive him. To me he is merely a famous internet-character rather than any source of valuable information.

 

[crobato]

Yeas but anyone can quess what they want and its down to odd's that determine which one is right. Quessing something doesen't reveal what made you come to that conclusion, it doesen't reveal how much you actually know about the subject, all it does is to show that you quessed right.

That's not how it works.

Making predictions is not a guess nor multiple choice. When the SAM systems on the 054A first appeared, the question is not whether its Chinese or Russian, but those who revealed it as Chinese also provided a specific designation---HH-16, and that's not something you can get from guess work.

You cannot guess for example, where the next J-10 deployments are, given how many regiments and airbases the PLAAF have. But in 2004, the first leak came out that the first deployment was the 44th Division in Yunming, which was counter intuitive because everyone was expecting the 3rd Division in Wuhu.

 

[zyun8288]

Golly, here's my view regarding Mr. Pinkov

1.Pinkov is not a plain internet source of speculations/analysis, like you and I. Reason: I don't charge people $10(??) a month for reading my speculations.

Pinkov is the author of a comercial media claiming to be the professional military magazine specialising on China: Kanwa.

So, he's oblidged to provide evidences to back up his claims and speculations.


2. After 10 years of selling his stories, he failed to establish his credibility because time has proved that majority of his stories are wrong. The reason why we can accept other parties, like Janes, to report things without solid evidences is because over a long time they have established their credibility. People know who's more reliable from track record.

So, Yes, if a medai keeps publishing wrong information, people automatically suspect every new article coming out of it. Isn't it natural?

Lastly, the special reason why chinese internet forums dislike him is to do with his blatant stealing free pictures and information then sell them as his own.

I am tired of talking about this stealing issue any more. But there's one thing I really feel angry, it's this 054A: you guys can still find his first article about 054A on this forum and CDF. In that article, he talked about the 2 SAM radar configuration and other, which is laughable. He said, as usual, he got information from Russia, and he even got a CG from them too. But that CG was a work of a famous chinese military fan who died of cancer less than 1-2 years before he wrote his article. The chinese guy's internet ID was deliberately erased but if you manify it you can still see it. When the chinese guy, MR Yan Huang, did his CGs, the information on 054A was still vague. He painted the picture with his own imagination, which only consists 2 SAM radars. And That's how Pinkov got his Russian information on 054A. That's a very low life behaviour.

 

[Gollevainen]

Well I think we can close the deal with Pinkov, like I said I've always treaten him as a famous character which name pops up here and there and causes alot of fuzz and passion, nothing more. But yet all "information" that he posts shouldn't be dismished simply based on that. Information should be taken out of its source (not context) and analyzed as such and compared to existing facts. Othervice it cannot be objective.

For how to determine which source is realible, to me the main criteria is that I know something about the source. Thats why I tend to treat alot of information flying around in the internet as a rumours becouse I've only heard them from another individual members and I cannot be certain how they have gotten that info. Thats why its always so important to seperate own obinions and analyzes from simple procasting of facts without giving the source.

 

[zyun8288]

I accept your opinion, and I appreciate your effort in managing a forum using your own time.

But I must say that My stance is, normal internet forumites should be allowed to freely express their thoughts, evenif sometimes ridiculous. But for a professional public media, the standard should be higher than that.

 

[Gollevainen]

But I must say that My stance is, normal internet forumites should be allowed to freely express their thoughts, evenif sometimes ridiculous. But for a professional public media, the standard should be higher than that.

Agreed on. But in the end there isen't much of us "consumers" to do if media is flooding nonsense other than ignore it. And there we get to the the birth of the proplem that orginally started this discussion: Information is ignored becouse of its source, not becouse its obvious incorrectness. It gives challenge to us and demands more from us, but hey, thats why these forums are for: To discuss and trying to solve things.

 

[tphuang]

I wrote an entry on my blog on the performance of HH-16

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will follow with more later. Wanted to write something better, but I'm kind of short on time and patience these days.

 

[tphuang]

don't know what anyone would make of this in the attached photos, apparently, the missile shown can be used as part of a common VLS for a new generation of 054A.

 

[Gollevainen]

Has some brainiac posted this in some chinese forum, claiming it allready been fitted with the 054A???

Couse, after ten secconds of basic research, anyone who isent yet familar with BASIC soviet naval weaponry could have indentify it as RPK-6 Vodopod (aka SS-N-16 Stallion)