FFG 054/054A Thread
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I could draw pics like that... where are these sourced and what credibility would you give this rumour?
AMRAAM and Derby SAM versions are slant launched although MICA and IRIS-T SAM families are vertical launched - without booster that will reduce their range to that of short range missile.
AMRAAM and Derby SAM versions are slant launched although MICA and IRIS-T SAM families are vertical launched - without booster that will reduce their range to that of short range missile.
well, then it would be active guided and HH-16 doesn't seem to be active guided.
I got them from military.china.com. They could have been scanned off from a magazine. Because of the forum limitations I cannot upload the full 400k image of it, so the pics here are almost like thumbnails compared to the one I uploaded in the CDF.
Without boosters I don't think the range can go far. The range would be comparable to a MICA or Sea Sparrow launched via VLS. However do note that the PL-12/SD-10 is bigger (wider in diameter, longer and heavier) than the MICA or AMRAAM.
It does appear like the missile is cold launched.
The Orekh like illuminators or what we assumed might be illuminators may be something else, like targeting and tracking radars that would datalink with the missile to handle its midphase flight.
Does not make sense at all to me that someone would still introduce a SARH guided SAM now that you have mastered active radar guidance against aircraft. It would make sense to me if China wants to maximize its PL-12 investment by introducing it in AAM and SAM versions. We have already seen a picture of a PL-12 SAM testing off a vehicle two years ago.
Lately there is a clip shown on CCTV commerating the PL-12's successful launch. This kind of ceremony, although dated and late, does signal that the missile has been fully accepted into the PLA, is in mass production and in operational deployment with those that could use it. And now you are going into further steps in the evolutionary chain with new variants that includes SAM versions. This is an indication of a maturing phase of a design.
Without boosters I don't think the range can go far. The range would be comparable to a MICA or Sea Sparrow launched via VLS. However do note that the PL-12/SD-10 is bigger (wider in diameter, longer and heavier) than the MICA or AMRAAM.
It does appear like the missile is cold launched.
The Orekh like illuminators or what we assumed might be illuminators may be something else, like targeting and tracking radars that would datalink with the missile to handle its midphase flight.
Does not make sense at all to me that someone would still introduce a SARH guided SAM now that you have mastered active radar guidance against aircraft. It would make sense to me if China wants to maximize its PL-12 investment by introducing it in AAM and SAM versions. We have already seen a picture of a PL-12 SAM testing off a vehicle two years ago.
Lately there is a clip shown on CCTV commerating the PL-12's successful launch. This kind of ceremony, although dated and late, does signal that the missile has been fully accepted into the PLA, is in mass production and in operational deployment with those that could use it. And now you are going into further steps in the evolutionary chain with new variants that includes SAM versions. This is an indication of a maturing phase of a design.
well, it certainly is better to have active guided missiles, but I guess in that case, it's just saying that the Sea Eagle radar is not capable of providing mid course correction. Otherwise, I really don't see why you want to put those illuminators there. I certainly expected HH-16 to be similar in size to PL-12, but I guess we just need to wait for more information at this point.
A VLS PL-12 is an interesting idea and wouldn't be a total surprise, but it wouldn't have the range of the SA-N-12.
Here are my range estimate:
PL-12 (air launched) - best conditions - 80km
PL-12 (air-launched) - low alt low speed launch against agile target - 30km
PL-12 SAM slant hot launched - 50km
PL-12 SAM VLS cold - 40km
PL-12 SAM VLS hot - 30km
PL-12 SAM VLS booster hot launched - 40km+ depending on size/duration of booster
Ok, using the VLS Naval MICA as a benchmark for what we could expect from a VLS PL-12, MBDA quotes the altitude limit as 33,000ft ~ 10km vertically. Interestingly that suggests the maximum range is significantly further than the "more than 10km" generally quoted - maybe 30km(?). -In fact the ASTER-15 also from MBDA has a quoted altitude limit of 10km and a quoted range limit of 30km... fits nicely.
Here are my range estimate:
PL-12 (air launched) - best conditions - 80km
PL-12 (air-launched) - low alt low speed launch against agile target - 30km
PL-12 SAM slant hot launched - 50km
PL-12 SAM VLS cold - 40km
PL-12 SAM VLS hot - 30km
PL-12 SAM VLS booster hot launched - 40km+ depending on size/duration of booster
Ok, using the VLS Naval MICA as a benchmark for what we could expect from a VLS PL-12, MBDA quotes the altitude limit as 33,000ft ~ 10km vertically. Interestingly that suggests the maximum range is significantly further than the "more than 10km" generally quoted - maybe 30km(?). -In fact the ASTER-15 also from MBDA has a quoted altitude limit of 10km and a quoted range limit of 30km... fits nicely.
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30 km range is quite enough. Basically, I see max 3 categories of SAMs needed on ships, with one of them being optional. Optional is RAM like missile, for very close defense, up to 10 km. Second category is something small and agile that can engage targets as soon as they pop over the horizon. Thats where hq16 should come in, and for that it doesn't need range over 30 km. Last category is SAMs designed to mainly deal with incoming planes, engaging them before they can shoot their missiles. That requires hundreds of kms of range, permanent airborne surveillance and active terminal guidance for over horizon engagements.
Problems there are: A) missile launched in mid air will always have longer range than one launched from a ship, so that may be a futile race in the long run. B) Radar absorbant materials, which are a mainstay of radar stealth, work better when used in layers/thickness which are too much for usual missile size.
Problems there are: A) missile launched in mid air will always have longer range than one launched from a ship, so that may be a futile race in the long run. B) Radar absorbant materials, which are a mainstay of radar stealth, work better when used in layers/thickness which are too much for usual missile size.
guitarjeff
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It is pretty ironic that the ship has the "photographing is prohibited" banners hung all over it. I honestly don't understand what the management at the Huangpu Yard is trying to hide. Afterall, a model of the ship was shown at an exhibit years ago, and these pictures don't really show anything new other than feeding the enthusiasm of the naval afficionados. The whole world (at least those of us who choose to care about the project) knows about the existence of these ships. Obviously somebody in the management has too much time (and resources) on their hands.
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