The on in your last post is Club-N VLS. Shtil-1 VLS looks like this:
Attachments
-
Shtil_VLS.jpg
FFG 054/054A Thread
- Thread starter DPRKPTboat
- Start date
- Status
The on in your last post is Club-N VLS. Shtil-1 VLS looks like this:
...or someone has just pulled out that pic and claimed it as Sthill,
related to some other forum's similar (but more intense&dirtyer) penis contest over this matter....There isent anything relating that picture into Sthill, chinese or 054A whatsoever....expecially when there is clear note plate saying 3S-14E...
so lets keep that other forums nonsense out of this forum, shall we (those who are participating in there will get my point and understand what Im saying, rest can sleep their nigths in peace...)
related to some other forum's similar (but more intense&dirtyer) penis contest over this matter....There isent anything relating that picture into Sthill, chinese or 054A whatsoever....expecially when there is clear note plate saying 3S-14E...
so lets keep that other forums nonsense out of this forum, shall we (those who are participating in there will get my point and understand what Im saying, rest can sleep their nigths in peace...)
...or someone has just pulled out that pic and claimed it as Sthill,
related to some other forum's similar (but more intense&dirtyer) penis contest over this matter....There isent anything relating that picture into Sthill, chinese or 054A whatsoever....expecially when there is clear note plate saying 3S-14E...
so lets keep that other forums nonsense out of this forum, shall we (those who are participating in there will get my point and understand what Im saying, rest can sleep their nigths in peace...)
You're being too criptic for me. I am Captain Obvious himself afterall
I don't care about the other forums bit, just how that photo relates to the Type-054A.
3S14E is the VLS for Klub-N right, as fitted to the Talwar class.
The photo shows 4 blocks = 32 cells. The Talwar class carries just one block = 8 cells. So the photo wouldn't be from a Talwar when it was under construction.
In fact what ship has 32 Klub-N? Clearly the Type 054A can't.
So where does this leave me? :coffee:
Please explain your conclusions re the picture.
PS. I can't see the 3S14E label...
it's right on the bottom of that picture.You're being too criptic for me. I am Captain Obvious himself afterall
I don't care about the other forums bit, just how that photo relates to the Type-054A.
3S14E is the VLS for Klub-N right, as fitted to the Talwar class.
The photo shows 4 blocks = 32 cells. The Talwar class carries just one block = 8 cells. So the photo wouldn't be from a Talwar when it was under construction.
In fact what ship has 32 Klub-N? Clearly the Type 054A can't.
So where does this leave me? :coffee:
Please explain your conclusions re the picture.
PS. I can't see the 3S14E label...
no one claimed my original picture to be launchers for shtil, the guy mentionned using a cold launch system different from the Russians, that's it.
??? The pic you tryed to present as a Sthill had 8 cells just like Club-n onboard Talwar...are we talking about the same thing
The Shtil-1 ADM system comes with 3S-90 launcher & 24 x 3M317E SAM in below-deck magazine. When the Russians developed VLS version, they retained similiar configuration via 12-round VLS cels (2x6/row). So a "standard" SA-N-12 VLS system will prolly have 2x12 (24) to 4x12 (48) rounds, in multiples of 12.
The other popular Russian ADMS is the Klinok, which uses 8-round VLS magazines for 9M330E-2 SAM. The Russians like to call them TLC (transport-launch container).
The Klinok is navalized 9K330 Tor. The 9M330 missiles are 3.5 meters in length and weights 167 kg. The Shtil-1 is navalized 9K38 Buk-M1-2, the 3M317E SAM is 5.55 meters long, 400mm diameter, and weights 715 kg. The VLS variant in TLC is 581 kg (1040 w/container) and 5.1 meters long (longer w/TLC).
The surface-ship Club-N system use 4 or 8-cel 3S-14E (E for export?) "unified below deck launcher" VLS system. The export version advertises capability to use 3M-54TE/TE1 SSM and 91RTE2 ASROC. There's also the unadvertised LACM, which is an "offensive" weapon and not included in standard export catalog.
The 3M-54TE is 8.9 meters long and weights 1,951 kg. The 3M-54TE1 is 8.9 meters long and weights 1.505 kg. The 91RTE2 ASROC is 6.5 meters long and weights 1,300 kg. These Klub-N missiles are also ~533mm diameter.
========================================
Based on the photos we've seen, the SA-N-12 and Club-N VLS system are box-shaped, while older systems like the Klinok (SA-N-9) and RIF-M use round/rotary launchers.
So if you see an 8-cel, box-shaped VLS frame, it's more likely that it's for the Club-N. Also, an "unified" Club-N VLS system have to accomodate 9 meter-long missile. The SA-N-12 VLS system is 2x6 cel and only has to accomodate missile under 6 meters length.
Regarding those pictures claimed to be VLS structure, I think they're prolly fake. It doesn't look like 2x6 SA-N-12 config, and I doubt a Frigate would carry that many Club-N VLS systems. Also, based on the floor and equipment laying about, I'd estimate those "VLS structures" in the picture to be much shorter than a Club-N VLS.
If by some remote chance that those are real VLS structures, then this might be a "domestic" development. I'd speculate HQ-7 VLS, since the missiles are much shorter and could fit into such a structure. But that's just a guess.
The other popular Russian ADMS is the Klinok, which uses 8-round VLS magazines for 9M330E-2 SAM. The Russians like to call them TLC (transport-launch container).
The Klinok is navalized 9K330 Tor. The 9M330 missiles are 3.5 meters in length and weights 167 kg. The Shtil-1 is navalized 9K38 Buk-M1-2, the 3M317E SAM is 5.55 meters long, 400mm diameter, and weights 715 kg. The VLS variant in TLC is 581 kg (1040 w/container) and 5.1 meters long (longer w/TLC).
The surface-ship Club-N system use 4 or 8-cel 3S-14E (E for export?) "unified below deck launcher" VLS system. The export version advertises capability to use 3M-54TE/TE1 SSM and 91RTE2 ASROC. There's also the unadvertised LACM, which is an "offensive" weapon and not included in standard export catalog.
The 3M-54TE is 8.9 meters long and weights 1,951 kg. The 3M-54TE1 is 8.9 meters long and weights 1.505 kg. The 91RTE2 ASROC is 6.5 meters long and weights 1,300 kg. These Klub-N missiles are also ~533mm diameter.
========================================
Based on the photos we've seen, the SA-N-12 and Club-N VLS system are box-shaped, while older systems like the Klinok (SA-N-9) and RIF-M use round/rotary launchers.
So if you see an 8-cel, box-shaped VLS frame, it's more likely that it's for the Club-N. Also, an "unified" Club-N VLS system have to accomodate 9 meter-long missile. The SA-N-12 VLS system is 2x6 cel and only has to accomodate missile under 6 meters length.
Regarding those pictures claimed to be VLS structure, I think they're prolly fake. It doesn't look like 2x6 SA-N-12 config, and I doubt a Frigate would carry that many Club-N VLS systems. Also, based on the floor and equipment laying about, I'd estimate those "VLS structures" in the picture to be much shorter than a Club-N VLS.
If by some remote chance that those are real VLS structures, then this might be a "domestic" development. I'd speculate HQ-7 VLS, since the missiles are much shorter and could fit into such a structure. But that's just a guess.
sorry, to clear up, I personally think what's on 054A is an indigenous system HH-16 that's actually not that close in appearance to VLS shtil both in terms of the Vertical launching structure and the size of missiles themselves. I believe that the pictures I posted have some credibility, because it makes no other sense for the moderators on Chinese forums to delete them so fast. Those pictures could be taken on other ships. So, I'm just waiting for more pictures to come out right now to make better judgements.??? The pic you tryed to present as a Sthill had 8 cells just like Club-n onboard Talwar...are we talking about the same thing
Yeas I know what you tryed to say. I was more confused about Planeman's answer if they quoted the obvious picture of Club launcher as something to do whit Sthill or any other possiple missile that will end up in the foredeck of 054A...
- Status