Falklands War, 1982, Thread

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b787

Captain
And all the Prince says is he was on the deck with a friend and a rubix cube. He DOES NOT DISCRIBE THE ATTACK!!
But come on he was a HMS Invincible Pilot in 1982, where do you think he was when he says that? come on terran you have no exit, the link is British,
"Speaking on the BBC's Antiques Roadshow programme, the Duke, who served with the Royal Navy as a Sea King helicopter pilot in the Falklands War"

During the programme, which is broadcast today, Prince Andrew also spoke of coming under attack from a missile while aboard HMS Invincible.

You are simply going in circles, be honest, i am honest some people in Argentina doubt the Exocet hit the Invincible, some think that that it failed to hit it, some pilots think it hit it, personally i give very low odds it hit it
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
You are trying to paint a picture by taking a quotation of a memory out of context. He said he was on the Invincible yes. But there is no evidence other than a few native claims of an attack on Invincible.
There is evidence of an attack that day but not on the Invincible but on the Avenger and she was not sunk.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
.... the Attack on the Conveyor was real It happened B747. There are pictures and admissions of that.
The Attack on the Invincible did not happen. The Quotes from the Prince are out of context, Questionable due to age and and he never says when the events he describes where's supposed to have happened.
B787 :D but really your new avatar so funny :)
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
A what if RN had Ark Royal retired only 3 years ago she would have owned a more robust CAW for range, power composed of :

- 12 F-4
- 14 Buccaneer
- 4 Gannet AEW but limited similar to a helo in fact for capacities
- 7 Sea King ASW
- 2 Wesses SAR

With this CV RN could have thread Argentinian bases especialy less defended and provide a clear better air defense to the Fleet with CAP operated to a more long range with Gannet.

Main weakness no defensive armament even MGs.

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GB Ark Royal.jpg
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
In terms of firepower The Falklands is a unique war as it really came down to training and the british had better. Air and Sea The brits should have been at a disadvantage being so far from home but what Argentina had was not enough to hold them from landing and Landing infantry is where things fell apart for the Argentinians
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
In terms of equipment the two forces that did battle. They were virtually identical in small arms.
640px-L1A1-JH01.jpg
standard infantry rifle for the Argentines was the FAL Standard for the British was the L1A1 another version of the FAL, The Fal is Sometimes called the Right arm of the Free World until the Rise of the M16 FAL was the west's answer to the AK and they are just as plentiful firing the 7.62x51mm NAto round they are big long reaching rifles with 20 round magazine boxes . Remember in the Cold war the Russians never really managed to establish a strong foothold other than Cuba until the late 90's AK's were virtually unheard of in the western hemisphere.
M16A1.jpg
both had a smattering of M16A1 Some Surplus US others bough direct from Colt. remember this was 1982 The British had yet to devise the Accursed SA80 series And The USMC had not designed the A2
early issues of the M16 relating to Ball ammo had been dealt with. And at 8.79 pounds loaded An M16 would have been a dream for a standard grunt compared to the L1A1at 11.39 pounds loaded
Sterling_SMG.JPG
both had versions of the Sterling SMG
The Argentines had a the unique FMK-3 based on the American Grease gun SMG but both were firing the same 9x19mmand Browning Hi Powers for officers, FN MAG's for GPMG.. on up.
in MANPADs both used the Blowpipe which was a line of sight missile Blowpipe_missile_1.JPG
British SAS had Stingers And the British had the french Milan anti armor missile MILAN_18.JPG
However the Argentines had mines both antipersonnel and Antitank.
So from a Equipment standpoint Infantry were even.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
you are just trying to minimize its importance and say it was no important victory, the Conveyor had an important feature you want to avoid, it was a Harrier launch pad regardless it was only with fuel and fuel tanks, the victory shows a trend, on 28th the conveyor was struck and on the 30th the invincible was attack, in 2012 Prince Andrew said he was on the invincible when it was under attack and he was there.
Quite the contrary. You seem to think the ship was only a high value target if it could be considered an aircraft carrier. Not true, in fact the loss of the Atlantic Conveyor was the single MOST IMPORTANT LOSS at sea of the whole war, because of how much vital equipment below decks and how many helicopters were lost. It had almost a decisive effect on the war, changing the nature of the Land campaign. If those helos had not been lost, the troops on board the Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram would not have had to be transported by those ships to Bluff Cove, they would have been air lifted forward from San Carlos. You seem to want to denigrate one of the biggest victories of the War on the Argentine side simply because the ship wasn't one of 'Grey Funnel Lines' finest.

You might swallow the lure of the British press, but i do not, the concealment of the attack was given because on the 28th and 30th of May Argentina was trying to knock down the British airpower, the Conveyor was a total success, the Invincible well i do not the degree of success but the fact the Prince Andrew spilled the beans after 30 years shows how ill prepared were the British and how close to defeat they were, and while British propaganda claims how well they were trained, the fact is if France would had delivered more Exocet, the British fleet was not going to survive.
You don't seem to understand the nature of the British press. They are not now nor have they ever been organs of government, quite the opposite. Quite a number of press with the Task Force were not even British, so also had no loyalty to UK Gov. Whilst their were operational restrictions placed on all reporting (the famous "I counted them all out, and I counted them all back", referring to the first Sea harrier raid on Stanley from Hermes. 12 aircraft btw). Every ship that was hit was reported to have been hit at the time. In fact the reporting did aid the Argentine side because it gave away the fact their bombs were being dropped too low and weren't arming before impact, and this was the only after action damage assessment available to the Argentine Air Forces at the time. They corrected the bomb fusing and more started exploding when they hit their targets. So our press certainly did us no favours there. Prince Andrew had a solid, if generally uneventful War and now seems keen to make his war stories a bit more exciting. Exaggeration creeps into these stories quite naturally over time.

Against the Soviets, with Backfires the British fleet had no chances, very likely the French would had defeat them too and the reason to conceal the attack is simple, in 1982, the British were a decaying power, and they only beat Argentina thanks to France never delivered more Exocets
Actually our weapons systems were tailored for use against the Soviets, especially long range Bombers over the North Atlantic, not low flying fighter bombers in a littoral environment. The War exposed how twenty plus years of focussing on a single role and one threat left the fleet dangerously vulnerable. This was the start of the eighties, but most of our ships were equipped with radars dating from the late fifties (type 965, 992) and air defence weapons dating from the early 60s (Sea Slug, Sea Cat) which had little or no value against a sea skimming missile from the seventies. The previous year's Defence Review had disastrously decided to end the practice of mid life refits for warships, meaning that the early Type 42 DDGs, the oldest being only seven years old at the time would have to serve into the 21st century with those same already obsolete radars and weapons. The War ended that stupid idea along with many others (like selling Invincible to Australia). If Argentina had stuck to their original schedule and waited until the end of 1982, we wouldn't have had a fleet to send. As well as losing both carriers one of our LPDs, Intrepid, was about to be sold, to Argentina! And nobody at the Foreign Office asked what they needed her for... Yes we were a fading power, due to political incompetence. Argentina's invasion helped remind us what we could be and went a long way towards getting us back on our feet!
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
A what if RN had Ark Royal retired only 3 years ago she would have owned a more robust CAW for range, power composed of :

- 12 F-4
- 14 Buccaneer
- 4 Gannet AEW but limited similar to a helo in fact for capacities
- 7 Sea King ASW
- 2 Wesses SAR

With this CV RN could have thread Argentinian bases especialy less defended and provide a clear better air defense to the Fleet with CAP operated to a more long range with Gannet.

Main weakness no defensive armament even MGs.

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View attachment 35561
Ark Royal was 'fitted for, but not with', 4x Sea Cat SAM systems (left off due to the need to complete her three years 'Phantomisation' refit on time, and never subsequently installed. Machine Guns (7.62mm GPMGs) were hastily installed on most of the ships of the Task Force en route. One such gun mounted on a Type 21 Frigate and manned at the time by a BAAFI cook (ex RM) is credited with shooting down a Skyhawk in San Carlos Water. To be fair he was a former gunnery instructor so he knew his business. Mostly these weapons were for 'moral support' rather than being genuinely effective, but every little helps. If Ark Royal had been in theatre, she could operate well outside the range of any Argentine Aircraft and still pose a threat to air bases on the mainland AEW cover would mean most Argentine raids could be intercepted before they reached the islands. It would have been a completely different war.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Ark Royal was 'fitted for, but not with', 4x Sea Cat SAM systems (left off due to the need to complete her three years 'Phantomisation' refit on time, and never subsequently installed. Machine Guns (7.62mm GPMGs) were hastily installed on most of the ships of the Task Force en route. One such gun mounted on a Type 21 Frigate and manned at the time by a BAAFI cook (ex RM) is credited with shooting down a Skyhawk in San Carlos Water. To be fair he was a former gunnery instructor so he knew his business. Mostly these weapons were for 'moral support' rather than being genuinely effective, but every little helps. If Ark Royal had been in theatre, she could operate well outside the range of any Argentine Aircraft and still pose a threat to air bases on the mainland AEW cover would mean most Argentine raids could be intercepted before they reached the islands. It would have been a completely different war.

For other post also well said my friend Smiley ami.PNG

Several links with interestings articles and Gannet radar range 65 nm : 120 km SeaKing AEW 150 i have so almost similar.
Argentine Airpower in the Falklands War
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AN EXAMINATION OF ARGENTINE AIR EFFORT DURING THE FALKLANDS CAMPAIGN
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Fairey Gannet AEW-3 in Falkland war - From Hermes carrier
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Sea Harrier, the forgotten hero that won the war in the Falklands. To be replaced by the F-35B.
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Sea Harriers And Harriers In The Falklands War
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Interesting ! they say if UK TF attack only the 3 or 4 may possible have 8 Sea Harriers in more not for Invincible sure full for Hermes have left UK with 30 aicrafts possible can host max. 36* so in fact only 6 in more and others ships for receive helos transfered Atl Conveyor by ex so far.

*Hermes's airgroup grew to 16 Sea Harriers, 10
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GR3s of the
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, and 10 Sea Kings (after some of the helicopters were dispersed to other ships)
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