F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

delft

Brigadier
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I feel as you do, Jeff, but how do you prove anything? As the producer of a complex aircraft you buy in a lot of parts and services and select the providers on the grounds of their capacity to provide what you need in the near or far future with an eye on quality, quantity and price. There is a very large number of factors to be considered. Who is to prove that you also considered selecting providers from the constituencies of a sufficiently large number of members of Congress?
But let's take a step back. J-10 needed 17 years from inception to full scale production. That was a long time and was caused by the immaturity of China's aerospace industry. F-35 derives from the JSF development contract signed in 1996 leading to X-32 and X-35 and in 2001 Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract for the F-35. Full production is to start in 2018, seventeen years later, if all goes right from now on and after the same company developed F-22. Of course the project was handicapped from the start by the idiotic idea of developing three version that were to be 70% common, one of which is to be a STOVL version, but large scale management incompetence must be part of the problem.
The suggestion by WaPo that corruption and treason are also part of the mix might be an effort to kill the project at this late stage. How can you then continue? There are two possibilities. Choose a single engine aircraft for USAF and start that off and follow it several years later with a twin for USN, to be built by whom? A design team concentrating on a single version should be able to reach production in seven years, 2020. Make large scale use of 3D printing to speed things up. Alternatively choose a twin for the Air Force and set up a second design shop several years later to make use of suitable parts already designed to make the version for the Navy somewhat cheaper or still design an entirely separate aircraft for USN. In every case abandon the STOVL aircraft. I hope the software for designed for F-35 might be adaptable to these aircraft and if not this is a further indictment for the F-35 management.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I feel as you do, Jeff, but how do you prove anything? As the producer of a complex aircraft you buy in a lot of parts and services and select the providers on the grounds of their capacity to provide what you need in the near or far future with an eye on quality, quantity and price. There is a very large number of factors to be considered. Who is to prove that you also considered selecting providers from the constituencies of a sufficiently large number of members of Congress?
But let's take a step back. J-10 needed 17 years from inception to full scale production. That was a long time and was caused by the immaturity of China's aerospace industry. F-35 derives from the JSF development contract signed in 1996 leading to X-32 and X-35 and in 2001 Lockheed Martin was awarded the contract for the F-35. Full production is to start in 2018, seventeen years later, if all goes right from now on and after the same company developed F-22. Of course the project was handicapped from the start by the idiotic idea of developing three version that were to be 70% common, one of which is to be a STOVL version, but large scale management incompetence must be part of the problem.
The suggestion by WaPo that corruption and treason are also part of the mix might be an effort to kill the project at this late stage. How can you then continue? There are two possibilities. Choose a single engine aircraft for USAF and start that off and follow it several years later with a twin for USN, to be built by whom? A design team concentrating on a single version should be able to reach production in seven years, 2020. Make large scale use of 3D printing to speed things up. Alternatively choose a twin for the Air Force and set up a second design shop several years later to make use of suitable parts already designed to make the version for the Navy somewhat cheaper or still design an entirely separate aircraft for USN. In every case abandon the STOVL aircraft. I hope the software for designed for F-35 might be adaptable to these aircraft and if not this is a further indictment for the F-35 management.

When it comes to three versions of on aircraft, I am totally on board with you, but now that the F-35B is up and running and the C is coming along nicely other than being heavy and slow on acceleration, and the A is going gang busters, this extra weight doesn't mean we need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Look at the P-47 of WW-II, the venerable "JUG", not a purty chick and a pooch, a nice climb prop changed her personality and she became legendary, heavily armed and armored. The WaPo is a left wing hack shop when it comes to DOD issues, as a long time LOCHHEED fan, what they do is NOT cheap, but it is usually Mission capable, to allege corruption is to just acknowledge thats how Washington works, Pork and gifts are a distraction, but congress expects thosed perks to be passed along-----Look at BHOs deal with Tony Rezko for the lot next door to his Chicago home, the F-22 was/is a mature aircraft, and as Jeff had pointed out she was lean and mean, not much pork left on her, the F-35 is porky in every respect and hence politicians like a little Hog Jowl in their beans, so the F-35 got the nod, while the lean F-22 got the ax. To abandon the F-35 makes no sense at this stage, we need to put her on a diet and get her up to speed, she is looking good and the high AOA testing to 73 degrees is outstanding, so its time to fly it and fix what broke, and enhance her strong suits. BRAT
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I feel as you do, Jeff, but how do you prove anything? Who is to prove that you also considered selecting providers from the constituencies of a sufficiently large number of members of Congress?

The suggestion by WaPo that corruption and treason are also part of the mix might be an effort to kill the project at this late stage. How can you then continue?

There are two possibilities. Choose a single engine aircraft for USAF and start that off and follow it several years later with a twin for USN, to be built by whom? A design team concentrating on a single version should be able to reach production in seven years, 2020. Make large scale use of 3D printing to speed things up. Alternatively choose a twin for the Air Force and set up a second design shop several years later to make use of suitable parts already designed to make the version for the Navy somewhat cheaper or still design an entirely separate aircraft for USN..
There is a third possibility and it is by far the absolute cheapest and most likely.

The F-35 is not going to be cancelled.

It is too far along, too much investment, and too many successes under it's belt, with costs that are dropping off steadily. The problems will be identified and resolved, which will be much cheaper than starting from scratch with something new.

Operational Squadrons are already being built up.

All three versions will be built...and the question now is, how many?

I believe she will overcome her difficulties and be produced for the US Services in large numbers and be exported to many nations, ultimately similar to the F-16 design.

But she still has four+ years to go before full scale production starts, and there's a lot of room in there for her issues to be completely resolved and factored into the builds in preparation for full production.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Theere is a third possibility and it is by far the absolut cheapest and most likely.

The F-35 is not going to be cancelled.

Too far along, too much investment, and too many successes undfer her belt, with costs that are dropping off steadily. The problems will be identified and resolved, which will be much cheaper than starting from scratch with something new.

Operational Squadrons are already being built up.

All three versions will be built...and the question now is, how many?

I believe she will overcome her difficultioes and be produced for the US Services in large numbers and be exported to many nations, ultimately similarly to the F-16 design.

But she still has four+ years to go before full scale production starts, and there's a lot of room in there for her issues to be completely resolved and put in in preparation for it.

A year ago if someone had offered me a choice of 500 more F-22s or 2400 F-35s, I would have jumped on the F-22s, now with the F-22 production cancelled, we NEED the F-35, I believe there is yet more thrust in the F-135 and once we nail down the handling qualities, we need to put her on a diet and find some mo hosspower, the high AOA numbers are a pleasant suprise, while the C continues to have some issues with transonic rolloff, I believe with the additional wing and a little more grunt from the F-135 she will be a hot chick and quite capable in the long run. Cheers Brat
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

I believe there is yet more thrust in the F-135 and once we nail down the handling qualities, we need to put her on a diet and find some mo hosspower, the high AOA numbers are a pleasant suprise, while the C continues to have some issues with transonic rolloff, I believe with the additional wing and a little more grunt from the F-135 she will be a hot chick and quite capable in the long run. Cheers Brat
Agreed on all points.

And thought the F-22 production has ended. They did not destroy the tooling (like they did with the F-14) and she could still be started back up with a sane administration and foreign/defense policy.
 

Franklin

Captain
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

What about the limited loadout of the F-35. Just 4 missiles in her internal weapons bay. If the US needs to fight another Desert Storm like war with just the F-35 platform how many additional sorties will it need to get the same results as with the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 ?
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

The second RNAF F-35 rolls out...
So, the Danes and the Brits now have two each. F-35As for the Netherlands and F-35Bs for the UK.

Good to see.

Of course the US Navy at this point is very likely to be the only customer for the F-35C.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

What about the limited loadout of the F-35. Just 4 missiles in her internal weapons bay. If the US needs to fight another Desert Storm like war with just the F-35 platform how many additional sorties will it need to get the same results as with the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 ?
The internal load out is better suited for Air too Air operations as it keeps drag too a minimum. the first aim is too establish air supremacy once that is done external load outs would be used for strike missions.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

What about the limited loadout of the F-35. Just 4 missiles in her internal weapons bay. If the US needs to fight another Desert Storm like war with just the F-35 platform how many additional sorties will it need to get the same results as with the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18 ?
The Block IV level of aircraft...perhaps Block V, which will be available when full productions starts, will have increased the payload of the internal weapons bay to three full sized weapons per bay. IE. one JDAM and two air to air missiles in each bay ( for a total of six weapons), or all air to ground, or all air to air.

This will be done by having hardpoints for mounting on the doors themselves and another hardpoint in the center of the bay and having clearance for the doors to close with weapons mounted and still clear the centrally mounted weapon.

In that config, you could carry six air to air missiles in the internal bay and retain full stealth, or have two 1,000 lb JDAMS and four air to air missiles (or other loadouts) in full stealth for a good ground attack and air defence mix.

Even without that coming on, with the newere Meteror Missiles or Small Diameter Ordinance programs, they will be able to carry more weapons...but with this increased capacity of full sized hard points, it will just add up to even more.

So...the system is advancing and progressing and by the time it reaches full production it will be a quite capable, full stealth fighter/attack loadout aircraft.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
re: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Thread

Although I think all of us would still like too see more Raptors, there internal load was far superior in terms of numbers.
 
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