F-22 Raptor 5th Generation Stealth Fighter
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
- Status
Vanguard1688
Junior Member
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
F-22's manuverability is overrated, I doubt its more manuverable than a Flanker or Fulcrum.
F-22's manuverability is overrated, I doubt its more manuverable than a Flanker or Fulcrum.
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
The CHinese or the Russians are not hot on its tail. Russia has yet to field a fighter as capable as the Rafael and the Eurofighter. China indeginous plane is the J-10, which is yet to be put in service and only comparable to early F-16 models.
Plasma stealth is theoratical, no prototype has been produced.
F-15C is the best air to air variant of the F-15. The F-15E, F-15K, and the F-15T are all multiroe fighters. They are heavier because their frames are strengthed to accomodate heavier ordiance required for air to ground attack.
F-15C is only air to air. Its AESA radar has unparralled look down shoot down capability.
Regarding Cope India exercises on how the SU 30 beat the F-15Cs, USAF was simulating PAF capability. That is why they were not allowed to use their Amraams and AEW support.
MIGleader said:
The CHinese or the Russians are not hot on its tail. Russia has yet to field a fighter as capable as the Rafael and the Eurofighter. China indeginous plane is the J-10, which is yet to be put in service and only comparable to early F-16 models.
Plasma stealth is theoratical, no prototype has been produced.
F-15C is the best air to air variant of the F-15. The F-15E, F-15K, and the F-15T are all multiroe fighters. They are heavier because their frames are strengthed to accomodate heavier ordiance required for air to ground attack.
F-15C is only air to air. Its AESA radar has unparralled look down shoot down capability.
Regarding Cope India exercises on how the SU 30 beat the F-15Cs, USAF was simulating PAF capability. That is why they were not allowed to use their Amraams and AEW support.
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
I have been following the f22 program for a decade now and it is interesting how in the mid 90s it was maintained how f22 was a stealthy and LO aircraft. I remember how there were different, independent claims how 'it may not be as stealthy as f117 but it's sure way stealthier than any other true air superiority fighter'. And that was coming from official US sources. Then, from the 2000 or so, the story changed. Now everyone claims F22 is at least just as stealthy if not more than f117. So what has changed since then? The redesign of the plane since the prototype? Or have we been lied back then, perhaps trying to make potential enemies believe that f22 is less capable than it is?
In the concrete US vs china scenario, in my opinion, engaging a flight of f22 far from mainland would be close to suicide. If, however, f22s are supporting the attacks on mainland, chinese chances would rise, somewhat. ground/mobile radars are more capable of detecting raptors, compared to fighter/awacs radars. If chinese could somehow establish a real time datalink between all radars in the area, it would create such a network of multiple bi/tri/poli static radars that f22s threat would be lowered quite a bit. Of course, in order to maintain such a network, you have to protect it. Meaning it can not really be used hundreds of km out of mainland.
Someone mentioned that 16 f16 could not cope with 2 f22. How about 32 j7s versus 2 f22? Sure, 16 would be brought down easely, perhaps even as much as 4 or so with cannons... but, without missiles, even f22s could not hold out against overwhelming force of even such old planes like j7. Of course, americans would probably shoot all the missiles then retreat. But still, an overwhelming force of old fighters could be used as a deterrant. At least for as long you have enough of them to be sacrificed.
I have been following the f22 program for a decade now and it is interesting how in the mid 90s it was maintained how f22 was a stealthy and LO aircraft. I remember how there were different, independent claims how 'it may not be as stealthy as f117 but it's sure way stealthier than any other true air superiority fighter'. And that was coming from official US sources. Then, from the 2000 or so, the story changed. Now everyone claims F22 is at least just as stealthy if not more than f117. So what has changed since then? The redesign of the plane since the prototype? Or have we been lied back then, perhaps trying to make potential enemies believe that f22 is less capable than it is?
In the concrete US vs china scenario, in my opinion, engaging a flight of f22 far from mainland would be close to suicide. If, however, f22s are supporting the attacks on mainland, chinese chances would rise, somewhat. ground/mobile radars are more capable of detecting raptors, compared to fighter/awacs radars. If chinese could somehow establish a real time datalink between all radars in the area, it would create such a network of multiple bi/tri/poli static radars that f22s threat would be lowered quite a bit. Of course, in order to maintain such a network, you have to protect it. Meaning it can not really be used hundreds of km out of mainland.
Someone mentioned that 16 f16 could not cope with 2 f22. How about 32 j7s versus 2 f22? Sure, 16 would be brought down easely, perhaps even as much as 4 or so with cannons... but, without missiles, even f22s could not hold out against overwhelming force of even such old planes like j7. Of course, americans would probably shoot all the missiles then retreat. But still, an overwhelming force of old fighters could be used as a deterrant. At least for as long you have enough of them to be sacrificed.
Last edited:
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
The morale of the J-7 pilots must be low. I wouldn't want to be thought of as cannon fodder.
We all know that they US doctrine is always to use overwhelming force. Those it would be more like 8 F-22 and 12 F-15C doing fighter sweeps while B-2, F-117, B-1, F-15E, and Super hornet attack various radar and command and control sights. This will be use in conjunction with tomahawk strikes supported by AWACS and ELINT aircraft.
In the mid 1990's the F-22 was competing with the F-23. Compared to that plane, it is not as stealthy.
Totoro said:I have been following the f22 program for a decade now and it is interesting how in the mid 90s it was maintained how f22 was a stealthy and LO aircraft. I remember how there were different, independent claims how 'it may not be as stealthy as f117 but it's sure way stealthier than any other true air superiority fighter'. And that was coming from official US sources. Then, from the 2000 or so, the story changed. Now everyone claims F22 is at least just as stealthy if not more than f117. So what has changed since then? The redesign of the plane since the prototype? Or have we been lied back then, perhaps trying to make potential enemies believe that f22 is less capable than it is?
In the concrete US vs china scenario, in my opinion, engaging a flight of f22 far from mainland would be close to suicide. If, however, f22s are supporting the attacks on mainland, chinese chances would rise, somewhat. ground/mobile radars are more capable of detecting raptors, compared to fighter/awacs radars. If chinese could somehow establish a real time datalink between all radars in the area, it would create such a network of multiple bi/tri/poli static radars that f22s threat would be lowered quite a bit. Of course, in order to maintain such a network, you have to protect it. Meaning it can not really be used hundreds of km out of mainland.
Someone mentioned that 16 f16 could not cope with 2 f22. How about 32 j7s versus 2 f22? Sure, 16 would be brought down easely, perhaps even as much as 4 or so with cannons... but, without missiles, even f22s could not hold out against overwhelming force of even such old planes like j7. Of course, americans would probably shoot all the missiles then retreat. But still, an overwhelming force of old fighters could be used as a deterrant. At least for as long you have enough of them to be sacrificed.
The morale of the J-7 pilots must be low. I wouldn't want to be thought of as cannon fodder.
We all know that they US doctrine is always to use overwhelming force. Those it would be more like 8 F-22 and 12 F-15C doing fighter sweeps while B-2, F-117, B-1, F-15E, and Super hornet attack various radar and command and control sights. This will be use in conjunction with tomahawk strikes supported by AWACS and ELINT aircraft.
In the mid 1990's the F-22 was competing with the F-23. Compared to that plane, it is not as stealthy.
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
I didn't say chinese would actually use j6 and j7 for such missions. But it sure would be helpful to have a massive number of drones in the air in any kind of combat versus US, be they manned or unmanned. If china could indoctrinize some of their pilots to give their lives freely for the cause, that'd help, for sure. Perhaps train new pilots for that very role, basically just to fly the plane, without any fancy, years long, air combat training. Again, that's just a wild idea of mine which, while i do believe could be useful, i don't believe it would be used due to various political reasons in china itself.
8 f22 and 12 f15 still wouldn't be an overwhelming force in such a scenario. It'd have to be some 100 fighters at one place, at the same time to do that. (still doable for USAAF/USN of course, given enough CBGs in the area)
It has been said often that f23 would have been stealthier, yeah. But what about f22 versus f117? you didn't reply to my post about that, saying how the stealth status of f22 changed from circa 1995 to today, making it more stealthy now.
IDonT said:
I didn't say chinese would actually use j6 and j7 for such missions. But it sure would be helpful to have a massive number of drones in the air in any kind of combat versus US, be they manned or unmanned. If china could indoctrinize some of their pilots to give their lives freely for the cause, that'd help, for sure. Perhaps train new pilots for that very role, basically just to fly the plane, without any fancy, years long, air combat training. Again, that's just a wild idea of mine which, while i do believe could be useful, i don't believe it would be used due to various political reasons in china itself.
8 f22 and 12 f15 still wouldn't be an overwhelming force in such a scenario. It'd have to be some 100 fighters at one place, at the same time to do that. (still doable for USAAF/USN of course, given enough CBGs in the area)
It has been said often that f23 would have been stealthier, yeah. But what about f22 versus f117? you didn't reply to my post about that, saying how the stealth status of f22 changed from circa 1995 to today, making it more stealthy now.
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
Data concerning true radar cross section between USAF stealth fighters are classified. But we can conject about it. The stealth status never identified what was making the aircraft less stealthy. Is it the radar cross section, IR signiture, etc. Those things COULD have been solved. After all 1995 was 10 years ago.
The f-117 is a first generation stealth aircraft and its technology level is of the 1970's. F-22 is more advance allowing for curve surfaces on the airframe.
Totoro said:
Data concerning true radar cross section between USAF stealth fighters are classified. But we can conject about it. The stealth status never identified what was making the aircraft less stealthy. Is it the radar cross section, IR signiture, etc. Those things COULD have been solved. After all 1995 was 10 years ago.
The f-117 is a first generation stealth aircraft and its technology level is of the 1970's. F-22 is more advance allowing for curve surfaces on the airframe.
Chairman Hu
Banned Idiot
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
AHAHAHHAAH the use of J-7s
I say you both are right to a certain degree, The Raptor is... Superior, and there is no way China can beat it right now, and even I think 2 Raptors can take 50 J-7s, ya know, Raptors can sneak up on you and you are screwed, so... yea
8 Raptor and 12 Eagles... wow... maybe 8 Foxhound and 12 Jian-11 will do well against that, at least the Foxhound and nail the B-1 and the AWACS
PAK FA and Jian-XX are just concepts, but they are the only possiblities to take the Raptor
MCA from India... bleh...
AHAHAHHAAH the use of J-7s
I say you both are right to a certain degree, The Raptor is... Superior, and there is no way China can beat it right now, and even I think 2 Raptors can take 50 J-7s, ya know, Raptors can sneak up on you and you are screwed, so... yea
8 Raptor and 12 Eagles... wow... maybe 8 Foxhound and 12 Jian-11 will do well against that, at least the Foxhound and nail the B-1 and the AWACS
PAK FA and Jian-XX are just concepts, but they are the only possiblities to take the Raptor
MCA from India... bleh...
MIGleader
Banned Idiot
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
Russia??? the su-35 is very capable, though may not be as advanced as the euro or raf, its comes close. then the su-37, if they actually fielded that plane, its only competition would be the f-22.
the j-10 is like early f-16 models, thats the fc-1. the j-10, complete with israeli radar and bvr missles , can take on any of taiwans f-16's.
IDonT said:
Russia??? the su-35 is very capable, though may not be as advanced as the euro or raf, its comes close. then the su-37, if they actually fielded that plane, its only competition would be the f-22.
the j-10 is like early f-16 models, thats the fc-1. the j-10, complete with israeli radar and bvr missles , can take on any of taiwans f-16's.
Re: F-22 Raptor: The New Threat to the PLAAF
um, actually, if we had such unrealistic 2 raptors versus 50 j7s battle till death scenario, even if the j7 pilots are complete morons who cant hit an elephant at two feet range, 2 raptors would still have missiles for only 16 planes, plus max 10 more planes shot down w the gun. Even if raptors would also be carrying additinal external pylon mounted missiles they would be able to bring down 42 planes. 16 internal plus 16 external missiles plus 10 shot down w guns.
Chairman Hu said:
um, actually, if we had such unrealistic 2 raptors versus 50 j7s battle till death scenario, even if the j7 pilots are complete morons who cant hit an elephant at two feet range, 2 raptors would still have missiles for only 16 planes, plus max 10 more planes shot down w the gun. Even if raptors would also be carrying additinal external pylon mounted missiles they would be able to bring down 42 planes. 16 internal plus 16 external missiles plus 10 shot down w guns.
- Status