European Economics Thread

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Like I said. Compare available data from 2023 with similar period in 2020. Less coal was burned back then. The extra share in renewables only covers the loss in nuclear power generation. And you can simply not compare the mild weather in Europe thus far in 2023 with previous years. Europe has been extremely lucky to have had mild weather with decent amount of wind this summer, also warmer winter than usual, but that cannot be expected to be a standard occurrence.

As for your claim about there being less activity in 2020 due to the lockdowns, sure, but a large fraction of German heavy industry is also down for the count since at least mid 2022. If you think that has no impact on energy requirements I have a bridge to sell you.
 
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A

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
luminary said:
taxiya said:
Regarding the GDP behind the war effort, I don't know where do you get your confidence. Here are the 2017 figures to just give you a rough idea. Since we are talking about war, only industrial GDP matters.

Let's be honest, the war isn't between Ukraine and Russia. It is between two camps to determine the future of the world, that is West vs. Russia + China. So let's see a very rough picture. China alone equals to the whole west combined in industrial GDP. China won't let Russia defeated, that is called "back to back support".

If we turns to another critical materialistic factor, Oil. The Arabs are collabrating with Russia instead of the west.

The picture looks quite the opposite to yours. Russia can last as long as the west. BTW, the figures below are 5 years old, the reality in 2023 is even worse for the west if know which side had the highest GDP growth.

I agree with you on one thing though, loosing the war is fatal to both sides, just too early to say who remains standing when it is over.

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Not just China and the ME. You can add the whole of Africa to the list now that the last few western controlled regimes are being squeezed out. Potentially South America too but I think they'll split in the middle.

Direct GDP comparisons are misleading as they overestimate the value of tertiary sector over primary and secondary. In an emergency situation, natural resources, factories and farmland is what counts, no one cares how many Starbucks you have.

But Russia and OPEC coordination alone is enough to assure the upper hand. You control the oil wells, you control the prices.
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Abominable said:
Not just China and the ME. You can add the whole of Africa to the list now that the last few western controlled regimes are being squeezed out. Potentially South America too but I think they'll split in the middle.

Direct GDP comparisons are misleading as they overestimate the value of tertiary sector over primary and secondary. In an emergency situation, natural resources, factories and farmland is what counts, no one cares how many Starbucks you have.

But Russia and OPEC coordination alone is enough to assure the upper hand. You control the oil wells, you control the prices.
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actually its worse. Starbucks provides a value added service with beverage supply chain management and cafeteria services.

Not sure what sort of value an army of litigators, insurance adjusters, etc. contribute, particularly if shooting starts.
 
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