Europe Refugee Crisis

kwaigonegin

kwaigonegin

Colonel
What a giant mess Europe has become. One thing that is clear (at least to me anyway) is that Europe is becoming less and less relevant and I can see that by the end of this century the EU would breakup if not before. Maybe not back to individual nations pre EU but likely fractured and new smaller unions formed between nations.

On a related note I also disagree with NATO's open door policy of pretty much welcoming anyone who wants to join. While expanding NATO is not necessarily a bad thing the question is can these nations and her people abide by all the NATO policies and articles? Are they mature enough to uphold and abide by the rules? especially when SHTF? My guess is no.

The share of the world economy is also getting smaller and smaller for Europe and this will have the biggest effect on their relevancy and influence.

The US is right to hedge our bets on Asia. One of the few things I think Obama was right on is the Pacific pivot. Maybe not the execution but the intention and ideas were logical and made sense.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
kwaigonegin said:
What a giant mess Europe has become. One thing that is clear (at least to me anyway) is that Europe is becoming less and less relevant and I can see that by the end of this century the EU would breakup if not before. Maybe not back to individual nations pre EU but likely fractured and new smaller unions formed between nations.

On a related note I also disagree with NATO's open door policy of pretty much welcoming anyone who wants to join. While expanding NATO is not necessarily a bad thing the question is can these nations and her people abide by all the NATO policies and articles? Are they mature enough to uphold and abide by the rules? especially when SHTF? My guess is no.

The share of the world economy is also getting smaller and smaller for Europe and this will have the biggest effect on their relevancy and influence.

The US is right to hedge our bets on Asia. One of the few things I think Obama was right on is the Pacific pivot. Maybe not the execution but the intention and ideas were logical and made sense.
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AMEN!
 
S

Scratch

Captain
kwaigonegin said:
What a giant mess Europe has become. One thing that is clear (at least to me anyway) is that Europe is becoming less and less relevant and I can see that by the end of this century the EU would breakup if not before. Maybe not back to individual nations pre EU but likely fractured and new smaller unions formed between nations.

On a related note I also disagree with NATO's open door policy of pretty much welcoming anyone who wants to join. While expanding NATO is not necessarily a bad thing the question is can these nations and her people abide by all the NATO policies and articles? Are they mature enough to uphold and abide by the rules? especially when SHTF? My guess is no.

The share of the world economy is also getting smaller and smaller for Europe and this will have the biggest effect on their relevancy and influence.

The US is right to hedge our bets on Asia. One of the few things I think Obama was right on is the Pacific pivot. Maybe not the execution but the intention and ideas were logical and made sense.
Click to expand...


It seems decision makers in Europe have stuck themselves in a corner by being completely reluctant to reverse or even just modify a decision they took, as doing so would somehow be a personal defeat. So they stubbornly continue pushing. Leaving the people of Europe behind.

I think it's so pathetic begging others to solve our problems. Border security is a prime national task. If we don't want large amounts of people to enter we close our borders, but don't throw money at someone else to maybe keep those people.
It's about time accession talks with Turkey end as well as any notion of visa need alleviation. And then progressively and collectively secure our common borders where and with the nations that are willing to. Of course it will mean bad press and harsh pictures. But so what.

With the UK convincingly pushing for an exit right now and the rest realising the magnituide of such a move (I just cannot envision any version of a meaningfull & relevant Europe in whatever shape without the UK) maybe decision makers will start to get things back on track.
I think there are indications PM Cameron and the pres. of the europ. Council, Tusk, have reached an accord that goes in the right direction. That is a community of souvreign nations. They seem to be rather sensible people.

A decreasing economic share isn't really much of a problem, I think. That just was to be exspected. With nations in South America, SE Asia, and especially China, changing form developing into developed nations, that's basicly a natural development.

With all that said, once again, there's quite enough of a mess ongoing right around Europe to keep from falling into insignificance.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
Scratch said:
It seems decision makers in Europe have stuck themselves in a corner by being completely reluctant to reverse or even just modify a decision they took, as doing so would somehow be a personal defeat. So they stubbornly continue pushing. Leaving the people of Europe behind.

I think it's so pathetic begging others to solve our problems. Border security is a prime national task. If we don't want large amounts of people to enter we close our borders, but don't throw money at someone else to maybe keep those people.
It's about time accession talks with Turkey end as well as any notion of visa need alleviation. And then progressively and collectively secure our common borders where and with the nations that are willing to. Of course it will mean bad press and harsh pictures. But so what.

With the UK convincingly pushing for an exit right now and the rest realising the magnituide of such a move (I just cannot envision any version of a meaningfull & relevant Europe in whatever shape without the UK) maybe decision makers will start to get things back on track.
I think there are indications PM Cameron and the pres. of the europ. Council, Tusk, have reached an accord that goes in the right direction. That is a community of souvreign nations. They seem to be rather sensible people.

A decreasing economic share isn't really much of a problem, I think. That just was to be exspected. With nations in South America, SE Asia, and especially China, changing form developing into developed nations, that's basicly a natural development.

With all that said, once again, there's quite enough of a mess ongoing right around Europe to keep from falling into insignificance.
Click to expand...

The concept of one Europe with no borders and one huge market make sense when the sole driver is economical. When faced with a crisis all the benefits of integration suddenly becomes a problem. It is painful to watch Europe responding to the refugee crisis. It is like watching a mini UN nations responding - a lot of meetings but no real concrete and sensible decisions. If the accord towards a community of sovereign nations is real then I agree it is in the right direction. Each nation needs to take charge of its own borders.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
EU quarrels over refugees, with Greece, Austria in crossfire

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Chicago Tribune said:
uropean leaders quarreled again over the refugee influx, with fingers pointed at Greece for doing too little to seal its border and at Austria and Slovenia for doing too much.

Conflicting national responses to the expected 1 million new arrivals in 2016 on top of a similar number last year left Germany with the heaviest burden and Chancellor
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facing untold political costs.


"We must first avoid a battle among plans A, B and C: It makes no sense at all because it creates divisions within the
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," EU President
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told reporters after meetings ended in pre-dawn hours on Friday.

No decisions were made at the summit in Brussels, especially after terror attacks struck Turkey, the key transit land for Middle Eastern refugees, and forced Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu to cancel his trip. The EU-Turkey meeting was rescheduled for early March.

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summit around the same time, seeking a breakthrough a week before three German state elections in which polls show the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany party gaining at the expense of her Christian Democratic Union.

In Berlin on Friday, after three months of back-and-forth among the three parties in Merkel's coalition, the German parliament tackled measures to tighten asylum standards and restrict family reunions for people granted refugee status. The laws could be approved next week.
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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
I thought I would not post in this Thread anymore, but I changed my mind after the Slovak elections, as blunders like this:
solarz said:
The Europeans ...

... think they have a choice on whether or not to accept these refugees

...
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are instrumental to people like:
Cc222eEWIAEToNh.jpg
(new Slovak Parliament Member); some background in English:
Ruling party wins Slovakia's election, neo-Nazis gain seats
source:
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(I believe this is not a political post, I'm trying to point out Europeans just won't accept Migrants in the form of a human-wave warmly welcomed by so called Good People EDIT that's how I translated
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in the Czech language, they would be (also my translation) Sunny Faces.)
 
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Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
kwaigonegin said:
What a giant mess Europe has become. One thing that is clear (at least to me anyway) is that Europe is becoming less and less relevant and I can see that by the end of this century the EU would breakup if not before. Maybe not back to individual nations pre EU but likely fractured and new smaller unions formed between nations.

On a related note I also disagree with NATO's open door policy of pretty much welcoming anyone who wants to join. While expanding NATO is not necessarily a bad thing the question is can these nations and her people abide by all the NATO policies and articles? Are they mature enough to uphold and abide by the rules? especially when SHTF? My guess is no.

The share of the world economy is also getting smaller and smaller for Europe and this will have the biggest effect on their relevancy and influence.

The US is right to hedge our bets on Asia. One of the few things I think Obama was right on is the Pacific pivot. Maybe not the execution but the intention and ideas were logical and made sense.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and the ONLY thing poor old Bro Obama ever got right was the Pacific Pivot, but should have kept our mouths shut about it, instead of making it a PR disaster!
 
J

Janiz

Senior Member
A typical brief discord between two groups of refugees in Piraeus. One group of them was surely engineers but it couldn't figure out whether the opposing force were physicians or sciencists :/
 
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