Effectiveness of China's Air Defence?

Bltizo said:

Well they don't even need the RCS of the J-XX to simulate an F-22, espicially as the J-XX probably won't be as stealthy.

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nemo said:

I question your assumption. RCS calculation is entirely based on computation power. The peak supercomputer power is at least 100 times higher compare to when F-22 is first designed. Computing power is a limitation for China 20 years ago. It is not now. China has two supercomputers in top 10, including #2 -- which belongs to China's National Defense University.

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In both cases, US airpower were nullified resulting in lost of objectives in korea and lost of war in vietname.

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I'd hazzard a guess that the "Shock and Awe" phrase was most probably first coined by the retreating GI's in korea.

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In January 1951, the Chinese and North Korean forces struck again in their 3rd Phase Offensive (also known as the Chinese Winter Offensive). The Chinese repeated their previous tactics of mostly night attacks, with a stealthy approach from positions some distance from the front, followed by a rush with overwhelming numbers, and using trumpets or gongs both for communication and to disorient their foes. Against this the UN forces had no remedy, and their resistance crumbled; they retreated rapidly to the south (referred to by UN forces as the "bug-out"). Seoul was abandoned and was captured by communist forces on January 4, 1951.

To add to the Eighth Army’s difficulties, General Walker was killed in an accident. He was replaced by a World War II airborne veteran, Lieutenant-General Matthew Ridgway, who took immediate steps to raise the morale and fighting spirit of the battered Eighth Army, which had fallen to low levels during its retreat. Nevertheless, the situation was so grim that MacArthur mentioned the use of atomic weapons against China, much to the alarm of America’s allies.

UN forces continued to retreat until they had reached a line south of Suwon in the west and Wonju in the center, and north of Samchok in the east, where the front stabilized. The People's Volunteer Army had outrun its supply line and was forced to recoil. The Chinese could not go beyond Seoul because they were at the end of their logistics supply line　— all food and ammunition had to be carried at night on foot or bicycle from the Yalu River.

In late January, finding the lines in front of his forces deserted, Ridgway ordered reconnaissance in force, which developed into a full-scale offensive, Operation Roundup. The operation was planned to proceed gradually, to make full use of the UN's superiority in firepower on the ground and in the air; by the time Roundup was completed in early February, UN forces had reached the Han River and re-captured Wonju.

The Chinese struck back in mid-February with their Fourth Phase Offensive, from Hoengsong in the center against IX Corps positions around Chipyong-ni. A short but desperate siege there fought by units of the U.S. 2nd Infantry Division, including the French Battalion, broke up the offensive; in this action, the UN learned how to deal with Chinese offensive tactics and be able to stand their ground.

Roundup was followed in the last two weeks of February 1951, with Operation Killer, by a revitalized Eighth Army, restored by Ridgway to fighting trim. This was a full-scale offensive across the front, again staged to maximize firepower and with the aim of destroying as much of the Chinese and North Korean armies as possible. By the end of Killer, I Corps had re-occupied all territory south of the Han, while IX Corps had captured Hoengsong.

On March 7, 1951, the Eighth Army pushed forward again, in Operation Ripper, and on March 14 they expelled the North Korean and Chinese troops from Seoul, the fourth time in a year the city had changed hands. Seoul was in utter ruins; its prewar population of 1.5 million had dropped to 200,000, with severe food shortages.

MacArthur was removed from command by President Truman on April 11, 1951, for insubordination, setting off a firestorm of protest back in the U.S. The new supreme commander was Ridgway, who had managed to regroup UN forces for the series of effective counter-offensives. Command of Eighth Army passed to General James Van Fleet.

A further series of attacks slowly drove back the communist forces, such as Operations Courageous and Tomahawk, a combined ground- and air-assault to trap communist forces between Kaesong and Seoul. UN forces continued to advance until they reached Line Kansas, some miles north of the 38th parallel.

The Chinese were far from beaten, however; In April 1951 they launched their Fifth Phase Offensive, (also called the Chinese Spring Offensive) This was a major effort, involving three field armies (up to 700,000 men). The main blow fell on I Corps, but fierce resistance in battles at the Imjin River and Kapyong, blunted its impetus, and the Chinese were halted at a defensive line north of Seoul (referred to as the No-Name Line).

A further Communist offensive in the east against ROK and X Corps on May 15 also made initial gains, but by May 20 the attack had ground to a halt. Eighth Army counterattacked and by the end of May had regained Line Kansas.

The decision by UN forces to halt at Line Kansas, just north of the 38th Parallel, and not to persist in offensive action into North Korea, ushered in the period of stalemate which typified the remainder of the conflict.

Stalemate (July 1951 - July 1953)
The rest of the war involved little territory change, large-scale bombing of the north, and lengthy peace negotiations, which began on July 10, 1951, at Kaesong. Even during the peace negotiations, combat continued. For the South Korean and allied forces, the goal was to recapture all of South Korea before an agreement was reached in order to avoid loss of any territory. The Chinese and North Koreans attempted similar operations, and later in the war they undertook operations designed to test the resolve of the UN to continue the conflict. Principal military engagements in this period were the actions around the Punchbowl, in the east, such as Bloody Ridge and Heartbreak Ridge in 1951, the battles for Old Baldy, in the center, and the Hook, in the west, during 1952–53, Battle of Hill Eerie in 1952, and the battle for Pork Chop Hill in 1953.

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Bltizo said:

RCS calculation probably largely depends on computing power which china does have, but it remains to be seen if China has the materials technology (highly durable RAM and such) and if Chengdu has the engineering discipline to get all the small details necessary for LO designs all (possibly the biggest hurdle; but the build quality of the J-10B is encouraging) -- at the moment I think China just doesn't have enough experience to get an aircraft's LO as good as the F-22 (maybe equal or better than T-50 and F-35, but the raptor remains a high benchmark).

Hopefully we'll know around 2012 when the first flight is rumoured to be about.

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