East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
It is not "enemy at the gates," at all.

The area is in international waters...and it is a busy area, where the US, Japan, S. Korea, and others regularly fly military exercises.

China has decided it wants to monitor this area as an ADIZ to ensure that it knows if any aircraft are flying a threatening flight plan directed at the mainland. If they do, I am sure they will 1st attempt to warn them...if they are far enough out...and then intercept if the do not respond and keep coming and see what they are up to.

If they are not flying toward the mainland, they will just monitor them and leave them alone.

I doubt any of the military aircraft from these other nations will ever file their military exercise flight plans with the PRC.
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China's ECS ADIZ highlights the ridiculousness of Shinzo Abe's "no dispute" fantasy, and continues China's efforts to;

1) 'Peace through strength' for domestic and international consumption
2) Increase pressure on Japan
3) Strengthen China-Korea cooperation against Japan (frankly, China doesn't have to work very hard for that)
4) Put Washington in positions where it can't fully back Japan without worsening US-China relations
5) 'Kill the chicken to scare the monkeys' with others in the region

Ian Bremmer,
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, wrote an article on the
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, and I think he got it right.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Engineer said:
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  • China has sent 51 times totally 87 aircraft into the ADIZ in the past month.
  • Aircraft sent include surveillance aircraft, AWACs, and fighter aircraft.
  • Aircraft performed regular patrols as well as emergency identifications.
  • Some 56 airlines from 23 different countries have reported their flight path to Chinese authorities for a total of 21475 times.
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That explains why Japan PM Shinzo Abe visited the Yakizuni Shrine lately. He already lost the arguments for China to end it's ADIZ, so he's making a rather childish radical statement with the visit to appease the right wing hawks plus his decreasing approval ratings.
 
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port_08

Junior Member
Equation said:
That explains why Japan PM Shinzo Abe visited the Yakizuni Shrine lately. He already lost the arguments for China to end it's ADIZ, so he's making a rather childish radical statement with the visit to appease the right wing hawks plus his decreasing approval ratings.
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I believe China need of implementing ADIZ is also kinda like a prisoner's dilemma situation. Although it is more beneficial for both China to work and co-operate with Japan for greater prosperity, peace and stability in East Asia but the trust level is not there yet. A very self aware move by Abe with the Yasukuni shrine visit doesn't suddenly come out of the blue, and serve a political purpose and statement (like America always like to ask, what is the intent). Can we say Japan score an own goal here? There are class A war criminals in the shrine, kinda like the current Germany leadership still visiting the Joseph Goebbels/Hitlers or Nazi Camp Commandents of Auschwitz(Japan not far behind in their own unit 731 human biological experimentation camp) or other concentration camps cemetery to pay their respect. Can this kind of behaviour be acceptable to Western so call democratic countries? Even for Mussolini he was hung by the neck and the body dump somewhere in unmarked grave, and look at the treatment of Osama Bin Laden, where is he buried? What did Osama do? 911 and that is only how many thousands died compare to the untold suffering of millions died in East Asia during the war. We already treat people like Osama and Hitler as scum of the Earth, should we not treat Hideki Tojo the same?? The implication of this Yasukuni visit is very grave. Japan a prideful nation doesn't admit the current post world order establish after WW2. Japan did not outright lost the war, but "surrender" unlike Germany where total devastation was inflicted to her army by Allied forces. Maybe in that sense, Japan still feel they did not "lose"?:confused:
 
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port_08

Junior Member
Air Force Brat said:
Exactly, and all this bellicosity is a passion-play for not only a local, but international attention, folks like to talk "smack", and show off their new toys, this is also a "justification" to your populace to show the need for better equipment to meet that perceived "threat". The danger is of course "proximity".
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"Threat" is very real, if you have imbalance of strength of forces. It is very tempting for 1 side to coerce the other and use threat of force. We have seen many examples in current century that nations won't hesitate to use force when necessary and to their advantages. Let's not be naive here.:p
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
port_08 said:
"Threat" is very real, if you have imbalance of strength of forces. It is very tempting for 1 side to coerce the other and use threat of force. We have seen many examples in current century that nations won't hesitate to use force when necessary and to their advantages. Let's not be naive here.:p
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Look, we are on opposite ends of the football, I've flown my American Flag, I've also been very honest about the real concerns I have about my own government, If I were the webby, and I'm not, the first rule I would make would be that we wouldn't criticize anyone elses government, but our own! Now, this thread is about the ADIZ, the ADIZ was "IMPOSED" on others by China, not the US, not Japan, not South Korea. I started school on Okinawa, my Dad was an Air Force Pilot, one day a week I had an Okinawan girl named Yashiko as a babysitter, I loved Yashiko, and she loved my brother and I, so I'm not entirely neutral here. I love the Asian People, I respect their culture of honor and respect, I agree there is a very real threat, I am aware of the situation, I am also a student of history, the world is a very dangerous place for us all, the ADIZ may make perfect sense for China, the timing and intention are what concern me??? so lets agree to get back on topic, and discuss the operation and concerns with the several separate ADIZ zones in this confined area, I do share your concern, military aircraft operating in close proximity with civilian aircraft is dangerous, not the least of the dangers is a mid-air??? yes, I am a pilot, the more air ops you have within a confined area, the greater the concern.

Mods, please feel free to edit or delete this post, thanks brat
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Air Force Brat said:
... this thread is about the ADIZ...so lets agree to get back on topic, and discuss the operation and concerns with the several separate ADIZ zones in this confined area.

Mods, please feel free to edit or delete this post, thanks brat
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The things AFB said that I quoted above are good advise.

Let's get back on topic with the ADIZ and avoid emotional responses regarding the government, cultures, or opinions about what any of the politicians do not related to the ADIZ.

Thanks.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Blackstone said:
Now that ECS ADIZ is a fact, will we see China establish a SCS ADIZ soon after the New Year?
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I think they will let things settle down for a while, and get more comfortable with it before they do. They may wait one or two years, or even longer.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Blackstone said:
Now that ECS ADIZ is a fact, will we see China establish a SCS ADIZ soon after the New Year?
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There is simply no need to do that. Japan and to a lesser degree, America would love China to do that to get everybody up in arms about Chinese 'expansionism', which is exactly why China shouldn't do it.

Right now, China has pretty much been able to successfully single out and isolate Japan with the East China Sea ADIZ, a lot of other governments made noise, but most of that is just for show, and the Japanese are the only ones who are really bent out shape over it.

I think this impotent rage Japanese right wing ultranationalists are feeling over the ADIZ played a big part in Abe's petty and rather stupid decision to go pay his respects to convicted war criminals earlier this week, but that has only served to further isolate Japan from its allies.

Looking beyond Japan, China's eastern ADIZ has already in effect put South East Asian States with disputes with China on notice. Now that they know China has such a move, I think they will have to conisider that as a possible, maybe even likely, Chinese response to moves they might make. That could be a big deterrence to unilateral moves they might make if they don't want China to establish a similar zone on their doorsteps. In effect, China has killed the monkey for the chickens to see, and now its waiting to see if the 'chickens' take heed of the warning.

China wants stability along its boarders beyond all else, and I think the threat of China setting up a similar zone in the South China Sea is far more effective at deterring possible destabilising moves by South East Asian States than establishing an ADIZ, which would be certain force those same states to respond in some kind.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Maybe someone mentioned this before but I find it interesting that South Korea's ADIZ extends over the lower portion of North Korea. I doubt South Korea consulted with the North to see if it was okay. People talk as if these the already established ADIZs are legal like agreed upon by all parties in the region yet they're the same as what criticism of China's recently established zone. Japan complaining about Chinese ships travelling in international waters "too close" to Japan is another hypocrisy. There was one of those year-end-in-review articles I read recently and this one was about, "Was 2013 the year 'we' lost China"... again? Complaining about China's ADIZ is about as hypocritical as thinking China's was theirs to lose in the first place. This isn't a fight over what is legal. This is a fight over a 150 year status quo.
 
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