Discussing long term impacts of Ukraine crisis

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W20

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Yes

Professor Mearsheimer is a firm believer in "The West Empire" and so he has been angry since 2014 that his beloved empire is giving free rein to one of his basest emotional passions: a rabid, deep, pathological and incurable Russophobia. There are no words to describe the passion of the Anglo-imperial oligarchy in Washington and London to "spit on the grave of the USSR". And when this mad hatred dies down a little, we will see with equal astonishment the two other visceral passions of this empire: the hatred directed at Persia and the hatred directed at China.
 
W

W20

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In this mad empire

In this mad empire there are four groups: (A) those who hate Russia, China and Persia (B) those who hate China more than they hate Russia (C) those who hate Russia more than they hate China and (D) those who hate Persia more than they hate China and Russia.

Professor Mearsheimer belongs to group B and is very angry with group C
 
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jshw31

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It is kind of funny though, In one of his talks he mentions that his "great power politics" views are generally outdated in Washington, but when he speaks with Chinese political thinkers, they have a greater alignment with his way of thinking. I think his direct quote is "When I'm in China, I'm much more intellectually home there than in Washington".


The sentence starts at 27:17
 
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Petrolicious88

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Anlsvrthng said:
Everyone miss the huge strategic change in Europe.

If Russia finish Ukriane , and integrate it , then will be the shock.

In that case the NATO is toast, have no more power than the Warsaw pact in 2022 .

The Russian political goal is not to occupy Ukraine, but to get rid of foreign forces from CE/EE, and make sure no one in her surrounding could do again that happens now with all of this sanctions.


BEFORE the Ukrainan invasion the request about Russia security concerns was addressed to the USA, AFTER the invasion it will be addressed to the individual European states.

I know lot of guy outside of Europe, and have no clue about the cultural memory, but trust me, if Russia will ask the Slovakians about " Please, guarantee your neutrality e, and that you won't sanction us" then do you think the Slovakians will refuse this request ?


I mean, of course, the USA is happy to send bombers , missiles and so on, and help to level Bratislava with few 10 000 civilian casualities, but the SLOVAKIANS KNOW IT.

First rule of the war as an average person is you don't want it.

And , please consider, if the SLovakians has to choice to use molotov coctails on Russian tanks, OR on the Slovakian goverment to force them to accept the Russian conditions and avoid the war, what do you think, which option will be prefered?



This is the reason why Lukasenko is in power, could make independent presentations that showing the future state of Ukraine.


Cooperate, and nothing will change, deny our request , and you will have war. OF course the USA happy to help, but even if the Slovakians won and evict the Russians they still have a destroyed country, economy and hectares of new cemeteries .


So, these are the end days of the USA centric world. The NATO could stay, but its importance will be no more than the European Agency for Railways.
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How is Russia going to reintegrate Ukraine? If a Pro-Russia government is installed, who’s going to recognize it. The Ukrainian people definitely won’t. China might not either. And there’s going to be on going insurgency that could drag on for years.
 
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Overbom

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There is nothing funnier than seeing the EU shoot at its own foot.

Interesting things to watch in the future:

1)With EU's economic damage, it is going to be interested to see what they will say to Xi at their upcoming meeting. A suggestion, some kowtowing might win some sympathy points from China. Xi should extract maximum economic benefits from EU. No need to throw a lifeline to them (unless strategic concessions are provided)

2)CAI should be revisited from China's side. We have seen EU's willingness to freeze Russian money, what's to say that they won't do the same to China? There must be more guarantees that they won't steal Chinese money

3)China will now move from toppling the dollar to toppling both dollar + euro. There is urgent need to move away from these western currencies. This might lead to a decline on the quality of life of the western people but that's an acceptable price to pay for keeping the US/EU from interfering in world matters with their financial sanctions

4)China + Russia + India + Pakistan must utilise SCO to build a separate financial system from the West.

5)China + Russia must make Central Asia their backyard and expell any Western influence there. The Kazakhstan example, and the Russian attack to Ukraine should be a warning for these countries to stop messing around.

6) Economic integration of China + Russia + Central Asia (maybe form a united regional economic block with EAEU)

7) They caused more inflation with all these Russian sanctions, so China shouldn't be expected to absorb this inflation in order to save the western people from the consequences of their own actions. Big export price increases from China are coming to Europe
 
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Vatt’ghern

Junior Member
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I've always wondered, what was Kazakhstan's excuse for not aiding Russia in the war on Ukraine, to my mind there was a blood debt that ought to have been repaid.
At the very least, Kazakhs did abstain from the recent UN vote along with China.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
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jshw31 said:
It is kind of funny though, In one of his talks he mentions that his "great power politics" views are generally outdated in Washington, but when he speaks with Chinese political thinkers, they have a greater alignment with his way of thinking. I think his direct quote is "When I'm in China, I'm much more intellectually home there than in Washington".


The sentence starts at 27:17
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That's because Chinese are realists. Even during the craziest days of the Cultural Revolution Mao still knew that it was advantageous to collaborate with "American Imperialists", and did so.
 
W

W20

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"When I'm in China, I'm much more intellectually home there than in Washington"

because professor Mearsheimer is a clear-headed, rational man, and he understandably cannot stand the suffocating, fantasy-laden mental bubble that is "The West" in general and "Washington inside The Beltway" in particular

What is incomprehensible to me is his unswerving loyalty to this corrupt and deadly empire
 
A

ArmchairAnalyst

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Petrolicious88 said:
How is Russia going to reintegrate Ukraine? If a Pro-Russia government is installed, who’s going to recognize it. The Ukrainian people definitely won’t. China might not either. And there’s going to be on going insurgency that could drag on for years.
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The West has their old cold war playbook but Russia also have the old Soviet or even older imperialistic ones too.
Subjugating a sovereign nation can be done, though with high cost and long-term implications. And in most cases it won't endure. Nation building or remodeling is extremely hard. Even moreso in our modern age. Just ask the US.
 
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