Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

FairAndUnbiased said:

Doesn't work when the other side can use force to either take your wealth away or threaten your customers/investors. The only answer to use of force is deterrence.

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America doesn’t need 11 aircraft carriers. The annual budget for the NYPD alone is greater than North Korea’s defense budget. The US’s foreign interests are better served through diplomacy instead of flexing military might. Why spend absurd amounts of money on defense when the US’s infrastructure is crumbling and so many still living on the streets?

Food for thought: China has seen improving relations with its neighbors not because of ramping up hostilities in the South China Sea threatening wars and invasions, but rather through RCEP as well as the Belt and Road initiative.

solarz said:

Errr, first of all, Lincoln abolished slavery and he was a Republican.

Second, do you think the Civil Rights bill would have passed without popular support? If not, then aren't you putting the cart in front of the horses? The politicians saw an opportunity to take credit for something that was going to happen anyway.

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The point is Republican conservatives were actively against the Civil Rights bill.

So you can't say Democratic liberals are "white supremacists" equivalent to Republican conservatives. That's the point, whether who takes credit or not, the Republicans DIDN'T take credit, but actively opposed immigration reform, civil rights movement, emancipation, etc...

solarz said:

Haven't you realized by now that the whole Democrats vs Republicans opposition is just a facade designed to give the oppressed masses the illusion of freedom? Democrats will oppose Republicans and vice versa on issues that do not threaten the power of the ruling elites. The moment something threatens that power, the two sides will become miraculously unanimous.

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This is true. Moderate corporate democrats are no different from their Republican counterparts as far as serving corporate interests and outsourcing to rest of the world.

But Democrats are not "White supremacist" equivalents to Republican Conservatives. We are talking about two completely different topics, it seems you just interject in a middle of conversation while ignoring what I am addressing originally.

solarz said:

Phead128 said:

Biden is 'Republican Lite'. I wish he was a liberal, but his policy is half-agreement with Trump, esp. on foreign policy as of today. Biden refuses to re-join Iran nuclear deal, refuses to lift Trump-era tariffs, continuing with Trump-era hostility to China. Biden is right-wing in his foreign policy. Biden isn't even remotely white liberal like Bernie Sanders, which actively criticizes US imperialist foreign policy like Iraq war. Biden voted FOR the Iraq war.

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So in other words, no difference.
Also, since when is Sanders a liberal? He seems pretty damn socialist to me.

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In the US, liberal is another way of saying "radical left-wing". So yes, Sanders is widely and commonly labelled as a "liberal" by mainstream media.

It's telling that you think Biden is a "liberal" when in fact he is a centrist corporate democrat (aka. Republican Lite), that you are confused what these labels mean.

solarz said:

How exactly are they different in domestic policy?

The American middle class has been declining for 40 years. That's 10 rounds of elections, and 7-8 rotations of party. Has anything changed?

The Columbine Massacre happened 22 years ago. We went from Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. Has anything been done to stop school shootings?

Sure, you can blame the other party and how they control the Congress or the Senate or whatever. However, at some point, you need to realize that this kind of deadlocking isn't a bug, it's a feature.

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Republican conservatives have only achieved tax-cuts for wealthy and (slightly) less gov't regulations and fighting the culture-wars on abortion and homosexuality. In contrast, progressive Democrats are at the forefront of legalization of marijuana, medicare for all, $15 minimum wage, abortion rights, civil rights, immigration reform, LGBTQ rights, racial equality, social justice, you name it. On domestic policy, especially on social issues, the contrast between Democrats and Republicans can't be even more stark. Progressive Democrats actually have a vision for a better society in America, whereas Republican Conservatives don't offer jack shit as a vision for the US.

I agree Corporate moderate democrats (e.g. Biden) haven't done jack shit, but they are definitely not "white supremacist" equivalent of Republican conservatives.

Appix said:

Losing? You must have other eyes than I have. I do not see him losing. They have a big alliance system in Asia: SK and JP are ironclad rocksolid in the US camp Then there are less rocksolid but nonethless allies like IN and PH. Then there are several other countries in Asia that are leaning towards them. Looks very good from US perspective..

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Regardless of what we may think of the US alliance system in place in North East Asia, the reality that it is there, that US alliance system.

What does that mean?

It means for China, from 1979 to the present day and continuing ...

China went from a poor agrarian society poorer that sub-Saharan Africa to be the largest economy in the world in the next few years.

China became the largest trading nation in the world, including being the biggest trading partner for all its neighbours and being the engine of growth for the region.

China also provide financial stability during the 1997 Asian financial crisis, and the 2008 Lehman Bros crisis.

China became the largest manufacturer in the world, who output exceeds the manufacturing output of USA, Germany, Japan combined.

China became the largest creditor in the world.

China built the largest navy in the world.

China built the only operational AShBM in the world.

China fielded an hypersonic weapon before anyone could or did in the world.

China is putting the BRI together, which is at least 7x times more money in real terms than that legendary Marshall Plan, the BRI dwarfs that.

etc ...

The US alliance system had a front seat in North East Asia to witness all of those actions by China.

It would seem that the sole purpose of the US alliance system in North East Asia is to not get in China's way of doing things.

crash8pilot said:

Don’t kid yourself. Democrats and Republicans go through the same revolving door where the sole agenda is to further line the pockets of the wealthy instead of serving the needs of the average American.

Money spent on the military industrial complex to “further” the US’s domestic policy could and should be put to better use to improve infrastructure and overall livelihoods of the people. The Sino-American Cold War won’t be decided by military might or which country secures global hegemony, but rather by the prosperity of each country’s society. That’s where the CPC differs in that their sole focus is to better the lives of 平民老百姓 instead of making sure billionaires earn an extra buck. Thinking otherwise just means you’re too simple…. Sometimes naive.

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Bro, domestic politics in US is far more complicated than Democrats vs. Republicans.

When you introduce the word "Liberals" , not all Democrats are liberals. Half of the democrats are Corporatists/Centrists. Biden is a moderate centrist democrat who half-agrees with Trump and Republicans on many issues. Biden is essentially 'Republican-Lite', but he does not represent all of the democratic views on domestic issues.

To boil down the entirety of US politics as "Democrats" (ignoring liberals vs. corporate Democrats ) are same as "Republicans" (ignoring establishment Republican vs. Fanatical Trump far-right) is the epitome of "too simple, too naive." On foreign policy, they are virtually identical with varying degrees of US imperialism (still imperialism), but on domestic politics, it's too complicated to say they are the same.

Phead128 said:

The point is Republican conservatives were actively against the Civil Rights bill.

So you can't say Democratic liberals are "white supremacists" equivalent to Republican conservatives. That's the point, whether who takes credit or not, the Republicans DIDN'T take credit, but actively opposed immigration reform, civil rights movement, emancipation, etc...

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So according to you, the Republicans opposing the Civil Rights bill makes them white supremacists.

Therefore, by the same logic, Democrats opposing the abolition of slavery in 1864 makes them white supremacists as well.

QED.

Phead128 said:

This is true. Moderate corporate democrats are no different from their Republican counterparts as far as serving corporate interests and outsourcing to rest of the world.

But Democrats are not "White supremacist" equivalents to Republican Conservatives. We are talking about two completely different topics, it seems you just interject in a middle of conversation while ignoring what I am addressing originally.

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See above.

In case you think 1864 is "ancient history", take a look at the way the Democrats are "defending" (not!) Asians against hatred these days. That should tell you plenty about their views on race.

Phead128 said:

In the US, liberal is another way of saying "radical left-wing". So yes, Sanders is widely and commonly labelled as a "liberal" by mainstream media.

It's telling that you think Biden is a "liberal" when in fact he is a centrist corporate democrat (aka. Republican Lite), that you are confused what these labels mean.

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I didn't say Biden was a liberal, you did. I said Sanders wasn't a liberal. Socialists are not liberals, however American media misuse the terms.

victoon said:

But you (and @solarz and @AssassinsMace ) can’t seem to stop talking about me, can you? I mean literally, you are talking about ME! All the other members that disagreed with what I said make their arguments with logic and facts, and mostly with respectful language. Sure none of us end up change our views. but none expected some online discussion was going to create a dent in the universe either. But you (and the other two) went straight to attack me personally. Who the F**k you guys think you are to question how I should use the forum and when I should post. I may be new to posting on this forum, but I am not new to being a decent human being and definitely not new to dealing with bullies, online or in real life. So if you guys keep making it personal to me, then bring it on. But IF you need to talk about members on this forum to perform some kind of FUNCTION, you need to do it privately, because the way you are doing it, right in front of my face, make you look like A**holes.



As for making Brigadier, I am not successful enough in real life to pursue an online career like you.

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You claimed nobody knows what's happening in Xinjiang, and when I called you out on it, you shifted into some BS nonsense.

Now you're accusing other people of "bullying" you when you're the one throwing out accusations like "fanboy".

Deplorable.

To understand American politics

(A)

In America there are 2 cultural identities, two nations, that is why the ruling class needs two commercial teams

the confrontation between the two nations is masterfully played, and serves to hide the reality: the Duopoly's voter power is exactly zero. The function of the Republican party is to prevent conservatives from coming to power; the function of the Democratic party is to prevent the left from coming to power, in fact we have seen live how twice, two times (2016 and 2020) the election was stolen from the candidate of the left

Voters cannot choose between wine, beer or mineral water; voters can only choose between Coke and Pepsi

That is why the two ruling class marketing teams have to exaggerate and emphasize the differences in a rhetorical way by focusing on "the culture war", i.e. by focusing on the confrontation between the two nations and cultural identities

The function of an American politician is (1) to deceive his voters by telling them what they want to hear and (2) inflame his base by attacking the other team

(B)

As they entertain and deceive the public in a gigantic mass spectacle and the biggest Show in the entertainment industry ...

... Politicians discuss how best to serve the three Gods of "The Roman-Biblical Empire": The American Empire heir to the British Empire or AngloEmpire 2.0


Jupiter, Juno, Minerva

(1) Imperial Hybris, Imperial Domination (= Russia and China Obssesion)

(2) "Our colonial project" (Ze'ev Jabotinsky) in "the land of Canaan"

(3) Domestic Statu Quo

Yes when the US loses out because other countries get a better deal from China it's because of corruption. They have go with the US or else corruption has been committed..

AssassinsMace said:

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Yes when the US loses out because other countries get a better deal from China it's because of corruption. They have go with the US or else corruption has been committed..

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Articles like these, only prove that the American ruling class are really stupid, or really dangerous (if they believe their kool-aide).

But there is also a third possibility, that the American ruling class are chickenshits.

That should be China's strategy. Try to avoid war. That is the dangerous part.

If the dangerous part can be avoided, then all the American ruling class would represent is stupidity and chickenshit.

horse said:

Articles like these, only prove that the American ruling class are really stupid, or really dangerous (if they believe their kool-aide).

But there is also a third possibility, that the American ruling class are chickenshits.

That should be China's strategy. Try to avoid war. That is the dangerous part.

If the dangerous part can be avoided, then all the American ruling class would represent is stupidity and chickenshit.

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Americans think... "Who wouldn't choose the US over China?" If they don't, it has to be corruption. I guess the US will have a team of goodie-goodies that travel the world and reveal to people in their own countries that their leaders are corrupt because they didn't choose the most costliest Western deal over China's.