CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations
- Thread starter Jeff Head
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Decent assessment of the Type 001A, but how it will perform has yet to be seen.
However, I take issue with what is written about the Type 002. We still don't know if it will use steam or electromagnetic catapults, though insider sources have been leaning more towards electromagnetic catapults in recent months. This is a discussion for another thread, but what that article is saying about steam catapults for the 002 flies in the face of what we've been hearing from our own trusted sources.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
I just take it with grain of salt anything that Minnie Chan said specially this Macau Andrew Dong expert how he know that they can't built 24? Maybe it come with the next lot production? There is so much error with the following statement implying it will be late “It will [also] take a couple of years for the newest carrier to enter full service after its launch, as it takes two or three years to train carrier-based pilots" . Of course it won't, the crew and air wing has been trained at Liaoning so It won't start from scratch like Liaoning. It will be faster
China will not adopt highly advanced electromagnetic take-off technology on its second domestically built aircraft carrier but instead rely on a conventional system, naval experts say.
TheType 002 vessel – the country’s third aircraft carrier after the Liaoning and the Type 001A carrier under construction in Dalian – would be equipped with at least three conventional steam launch catapults, a source close to the navy told the South China Morning Post.
But it would be the first Chinese aircraft carrier to use this type of launch system.
“There are still some technical problems applying nuclear propulsion to the carrier platform, so the Type 002 will still use steam catapults,” the source said.
“But this is still a breakthrough compared with Liaoning and the Type 001A carrier, both of which are equipped with ski-jump ramps.
“It will [also] take a couple of years for the newest carrier to enter full service after its launch, as it takes two or three years to train carrier-based pilots.”
Professor Jin Yinan, a former director of the strategic research institute at the People’s Liberation Army National Defence University, said in December that construction of the Type 002 started at the Jiangnan Changxingdao shipyard in Shanghai in March 2015.
Hong Kong-based military expert Liang Guoliang said China planned to produce two Type 002 carriers, each with a displacement of 85,000 tonnes, which would make them the biggest Chinese carriers. The Liaoning is about 55,000 tonnes while the Type 001A will be 70,000 tonnes.
The first Type 002 carrier was expected to be launched in about 2021, Liang added.
There had been speculation that the Type 002 could be a nuclear-powered vessel with an electromagnetic take-off system.
But Li Jie, a Beijing-based military expert, said it would be impossible to develop a completely new generation carrier in just a few years.
“Different systems need different technology, technicians and pilots,” Li said.
“For example, the Type 001A is scheduled to be launched later this year, but it will take several more years to develop as part of a real battle group before entering full service in the navy.”
Meanwhile, Andrei Chang, founder of military magazine Kanwa Asian Defence, said the Type 001A was “purely a copycat” of the Varyag, which was laid down as a Kuznetsov-class carrier for the Soviet navy in the 1970s, before it was sold to China and refurbished as the Liaoning.
Li said that while the appearance of the Type 001A may be similar to the Liaoning, its layout, interior equipment and overall operational concept would be more advanced than the Liaoning.
Li said one difference was the Type 001’s take-off ramp slope of 12 degrees, compared with 14 degrees for the Liaoning.
The 12-degree ramp would help fighters shorten their take-off distance, save fuel and increase their weapons payload while strengthening the ship’s structure,Li said.
“There are different operational concepts between the Liaoning and Type 001A,” he said.
“Based on the Varyag design, the Liaoning was designedwith both weapons systems and aircraft in an equally important layout, but the Type 001A has learned from US carriers to focus on how to make aircraft on board more functional.”
According to Li, certain weapons were excluded from the Type 001A platform to allow more carrier-based J-15 parking. The hanger was also being expanded to allow the new carrier to carry between six and eight more J-15 fighter jets than the Liaoning.
“The control tower island on the deck was shrunk 10 per cent, which allow the deck to dock more helicopters and fixed-wing early-warning aircraft,” he said, adding that four weapons sponsons, or projections, on the aft deck had been dismantled.
S-band radars with four large antennae would be installed on the top of control tower, he said.
The system is China’s most advanced and is capable of covering a 360-degree search field to scout dozens of targets in the air and at sea.
Four HQ-10 short-range air defence missiles systems with 24 tubes would also deployed on the new ship, Li said.
This weapons system is also mounted on the navy’s most advanced Type 052D destroyers and Type 056 frigates.
However, Macau-based military observerAntony Wong Dong said the country’s limited production capacity for carrier-based J-15s might hinder the 001A entering full service on schedule.
“The Liaoning was designed to carry up to one aviation regiment, or 24 carrier-based fighters.
“But the vessel so far has got only about 20 carrier-based J-15 because the [state-owned] Aeroengine Corporation has not yet developed a reliable replacement for the Russian-produced AL-31 models.
“It’s likely that the Type 001A will face the same problems as the Liaoning.”
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MwRYum
Major
In short, the work would be very extensive, should it be technically feasible.
In detail, it'd no only involve re-purpose a whole stretch of decks below the flight deck to mount the catapult itself, but also shave off the shi-jump ramp, as well as compatible power unit to supply electricity for the EMALS (let's assume that's where the future is heading). We're talking about taking the ship off the active list for a few years to do such major work, and that's the least of it.
What a terrible article, not least because Minimal Chan dishonestly used an Ulyanovsk carrier CG to depict CV-18 and even uses captions Like "HQ-10" and "10% smaller" to point to objects on the Ulyanovsk as if it actually were the CV-18 carrier. Her articles are like the National Enquirer of Chinese military journalism.
MwRYum
Major
SCMP or in fact any of the Hong Kong's MSM should be the last place to look up for news when comes to military development , China or otherwise, because they copy & paste either from news wire or Chinese BBS sites, or perhaps from us (!) if they're too lazy to translate into English. Their writers...heh, I won't trust them as far as I can throw them.What a terrible article, not least because Minimal Chan dishonestly used an Ulyanovsk carrier CG to depict CV-18 and even uses captions Like "HQ-10" and "10% smaller" to point to objects on the Ulyanovsk as if it actually were the CV-18 carrier. Her articles are like the National Enquirer of Chinese military journalism.
Better luck to dig up at Chinese BBS sites, as long as you remember the "90-10 rule" (90% fluff, 10% useful) and still take it with a big pinch of salt. I admit I'm pessimist by nature, although I'd call it "to be on the safe side".
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Does the 'shandong' have an expanded deck over Liaoning, including a reduction in the ramp's angle or is that article complete BS? From what I know, I do not believe she has. The only thing exterior that may be slightly different is the island superstructure.
Well, she has a reduction in island footprint which means the deck area gets expanded a little bit. As for the 12 degree ramp thing, I'm not so sure. The Liaoning specifically had her ramp modified to 14 degrees from the original 12 of the Varyag because it led to better J-15 performance. Why would they modify the 001A back to 12 degrees?
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Yup, I was thinking that as well. As to the expanded area I was referring to the red outlines from the diagram. Me thinks the article is not accurate.
As Iron Man said a few posts before, the diagram used for the article is hilariously bad. It's a diagram of the Ulyanovsk, which has nothing to do with the 001A.
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