CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

[Franklin]

I'm still skeptical that the J-15's can perform strike missions taking off from the ski ramp on Liaoning or CV-17 in the future. You have to able to take off with a full weapons and fuel load to do that and I have never seen the J-15's take off from the Liaoning with a full load of strike weapons. In fact most of the time the J-15's takes off from the Liaoning without any weapons at all!

But platforms like these does provide China with 2 very important functions. It gives the PLAN fleet air cover far off its shores and it helps to plug the large hole in China's ASW capability somewhat. ASW warfare is the achilles heels of the PLAN and without plugging this gap things are going to look bleak for the PLAN in any future conflict. So that's why its important for China to invest in LHD's.

 

[taxiya]

I'm still skeptical that the J-15's can perform strike missions taking off from the ski ramp on Liaoning or CV-17 in the future. You have to able to take off with a full weapons and fuel load to do that and I have never seen the J-15's take off from the Liaoning with a full load of strike weapons. In fact most of the time the J-15's takes off from the Liaoning without any weapons at all!

But platforms like these does provide China with 2 very important functions. It gives the PLAN fleet air cover far off its shores and it helps to plug the large hole in China's ASW capability somewhat. ASW warfare is the achilles heels of the PLAN and without plugging this gap things are going to look bleak for the PLAN in any future conflict. So that's why its important for China to invest in LHD's.

The "air cover" role will remain the primary role of PLAN CVs for a long period. It is sufficient to defend China's marine time trade and supply lanes. The "strike role" is much less necessary as China is not going to bomb anybody's land far away. On this count, PLAN CV is different from any western navies. I won't say never and ever, just say it is not now and not the near future.

 

[Iron Man]

I'm still skeptical that the J-15's can perform strike missions taking off from the ski ramp on Liaoning or CV-17 in the future. You have to able to take off with a full weapons and fuel load to do that and I have never seen the J-15's take off from the Liaoning with a full load of strike weapons. In fact most of the time the J-15's takes off from the Liaoning without any weapons at all!

You've also never seen the Liaoning with 24 fighters. Maybe that means it can't carry that many.

IIRC it's already been demonstrated that Su-33s can carry full load/full fuel packages and successfully launch from the Kuznetsov's ski ramp with reasonable wind-over-deck speeds. I don't see any reason that the J-15 cannot do at least as well as the Su-33. What we have or have not seen at this point in the evolution of Chinese carrier aviation is not relevant to the existence or lack of existence of any particular system or capability. If you come back in 10 years and point this out again, maybe you would have a point. But certainly not now.

But platforms like these does provide China with 2 very important functions. It gives the PLAN fleet air cover far off its shores and it helps to plug the large hole in China's ASW capability somewhat. ASW warfare is the achilles heels of the PLAN and without plugging this gap things are going to look bleak for the PLAN in any future conflict. So that's why its important for China to invest in LHD's.

The primary role of an LHD is not ASW, it is amphibious assault. It would probably have greater ASW capabilities than a surface combatant like 054A or 052C/D but this is an effect of its larger helicopter carrying capacity, not because it was ever intended to primarily perform ASW.

 

[kwaigonegin]

I'm still skeptical that the J-15's can perform strike missions taking off from the ski ramp on Liaoning or CV-17 in the future. You have to able to take off with a full weapons and fuel load to do that and I have never seen the J-15's take off from the Liaoning with a full load of strike weapons. In fact most of the time the J-15's takes off from the Liaoning without any weapons at all!

But platforms like these does provide China with 2 very important functions. It gives the PLAN fleet air cover far off its shores and it helps to plug the large hole in China's ASW capability somewhat. ASW warfare is the achilles heels of the PLAN and without plugging this gap things are going to look bleak for the PLAN in any future conflict. So that's why its important for China to invest in LHD's.

Give them time and I believe they will have those capabilities plugged. Yes ASW is their weak point and they know it too but that takes time to mature.

As to J15 taking off with full ordnance load I like to think it is entirely possible even though I agree we've never seen it. I like to think it's possible given my hunch. They can always drink up later with buddy refuelling. We know the J15 is buddy refuelling capable.

 

[MwRYum]

The "air cover" role will remain the primary role of PLAN CVs for a long period. It is sufficient to defend China's marine time trade and supply lanes. The "strike role" is much less necessary as China is not going to bomb anybody's land far away. On this count, PLAN CV is different from any western navies. I won't say never and ever, just say it is not now and not the near future.

So long the package rely on ski jump to launch, BARCAP mission will be the primary role; if J-15 has air-refueling capability and availability of such support they can perform air-to-sea/mud package in anywhere of useful volume, but we know their aerial tankers are in short supply as it is, and buddy-to-buddy refuel just won't cut it for such requirement.

Thus, for some time - next decade or two at the very least - most if not all of the strike packge, if to be of adequate volume, will have to be carried out via LACM or AShM launched from DDGs and SSNs/SSKs in the battlegroup.

 

[Deino]

Hey ... what's wrong ?? Now exactly one week gone since the last images were posted !??

Do they have an agreement on top-news, and now CAC with the J-20A is on again ?? ... or can we expect it already fully painted when the turn in on the Type 001A again ?

Deino

 

[Deino]

Hey ... what's wrong ?? Now exactly one week gone since the last images were posted !??

Do they have an agreement on top-news, and now CAC with the J-20A is on again ?? ... or can we expect it already fully painted when the turn in on the Type 001A again ?

Deino

Seems as if I should have asked sooner ...

 

[by78]

A few more from today...

(1300 x 842)

(1300 x 891)

(1152 x 880)

 

[Totoro]

I am getting roughly 53-55 meters of island base length (without the overhang of decks above). I am also getting 63 meters for island base on russian Kuznetsov.

 

[bruceb1959]

I am getting roughly 53-55 meters of island base length (without the overhang of decks above). I am also getting 63 meters for island base on russian Kuznetsov.

Does that c.15% reduction in length align with expectations?