CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

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jacksprat

New Member
I must respectfully disagree a bit. While China has made some very impressive progress in the past two decades, the U.S. Navy has many more decades of planning, adapting, and practicing on a daily basis. China's navy, while getting better rapidly every year in their technological developements, does not have the benefit of such expierence. One must learn to crawl, before walking and walk before running. For power projection and air space dominance, especially in the open ocean, China is just learning how to walk. No doubt they will get there in a couple of decades, but expierence will win out in most conflicts. And while China is gaining new expierence and technologies at a very impressive rate, the western navies are not just resting on their laurels, but likewise continuing to come up with new tech and ways of doing business.

I spent most of, if no most my mispent youth and adulthood serving on aircraft carriers, so i might be biased a bit, but I would respectfully submit that I am not uniformed.

Wthh respect...
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I think this whole mental exercise in 2 CSG vs 1 CSG discussion is inane. In real life it is IMPOSSIBLE because

1 Kitty Hawk is retired!

2 Shandong won't even be active duty for possibly another 2 years

3 PLAN vs USN carrier battles is extremely unlikely and if it were to somehow actually happen, that would be the LEAST of our concerns because the entire would wou've gone to the crapper by that point.

We shud move on. Not sure why Blackstone brought it up.
 
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Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
don't know about that, Jeff. Away from land based air support, comprehensive USN, USAF, US Space, and US Cyber commands would make mincemeat out of the Shandong CBG.
Ah, beloved scanario from .ru forums: selected ship, submarine and/or bunch of planes are forced to fight whole NATO on their own.


They will, but placing CBG at suicidal position isn't something useful to do.
It's worthremembering, ehat US themselves hadn't dealt with open ocean carrier versus carrier combat since ww2, and even asymmetrical blue water capabilities mostly down from mid 1990s.

If someone thinks, what AESA somehow manages to make f/a-18 into proper fleet defence interceptor, or harpoon/target pod capability magically produce proper striker - well, they're wrong.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Henri K is back He was in China when CV17 was launched. Now he is resuming his blog I like this guy He seem to understand China and her people well He basically grasp the essence of western dislike for China

But what we need to remember is not how many aircraft carriers or aircraft China is capable of building, but its unwavering determination to remain technologically independent, its desire to regain her place at the top of all Peoples as it was time in the past, and that completeness of its industrial chains which may not be on the Western level brick for brick. individually speaking, but are fundamentally complete and prepared for external disturbances.

And this is perhaps what makes this country less "controllable" than other emerging countries, like India, for example, and therefore much less appreciated by the political powers of the West.

I was in China for business when the 2nd aircraft carrier was put on the air. I was not able to follow the event live, but when I saw the television report in the evening on the way back to the hotel, the first sentence of the Chinese national anthem - "The March of the Volunteers" - is Immediately came to mind:


" Stand Up ! We no longer want to be slaves, it is with our flesh that we will build our new wall. "

And what I saw this time in China, a few years after my last passage, also reminds me of the last sentence of the same hymn:
"Forward! Forward! Forward! "

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The new aircraft carrier was 3½ years after the first sheet was cut - more exactly 42 months since November 2013 - the second Chinese aircraft carrier was floated at the Dalian shipyard in the north of the country.

This sistership, or almost, of the aircraft carrier Liaoning , itself transformed by the Chinese from the former Varyag acquired in Ukraine, was put on dry dock in March 2015.

Since then, the 67,000-tonne vessel has gradually taken shape - the exterior walls of the main hangar were laid on November 25, 2015, followed quickly by the handling of the flight deck that began on March 27, 2016, and Oblique bridge in late April.

The installation of the modules of the 14 ° springboard, very characteristic of this new Chinese STOBAR aircraft carrier, began in early May, and the bridge was completely closed one month later.

In September 2016, the ship begins to receive its islet, and the works are completed towards the end of the year (see our article "
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" dated 25 September).

The painting of the lively work of keel, preceded by the verification of the tightness of the living works, took place in February this year. And in the space of a few weeks since the beginning of April, the Dalian technicians have already finished painting exterior dead works and superstructures.

On 23 April 2017, the 68th anniversary of the People's Liberation Army Navy, when all Chinese admirers thought it was the date of the aircraft carrier's launch, the Dalian Shipyard proceeded to fill the water Of the hold. A series of verification was carried out two days before the official launch of the building.


This major milestone in this major Chinese naval program finally took place on April 26th at around 9:00 am in the presence of FAN Chang Long, Executive Vice-President of the Central Military Commission, SHEN Jin Long, Vice-Admiral of Squadron of the Chinese Navy, as well as senior officials of the shipbuilding group CSIC.

For the time being, the ship is about 70% complete, with all the main systems, such as propulsion and power supply, already in place.

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With the new aircraft carrier now in the water, the installation of the other systems and the dockside tests will start. Given that our first estimate that the second aircraft carrier will be released before the end of the second half of 2017 has been fair, we are maintaining our previous forecasts on the following milestones:

  • The first sea trip before September 2018
  • Admission to active service before October 2019
It should be noted that the satellite imaging company DigitalGlobe published a few hours ago a picture taken on April 26 by its satellite WV2 over Dalian. It is clear that the giant of the sea has left its hold now filled with water, and the harbor tugs are bringing the ship beside the wharf.

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C-cixZ0W0AE_8sz.jpg

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Captured yesterday by
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:
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's new aircraft carrier being parked by several tugs. Ceremonial red streamers can be seen from the bow.

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The satellite image of April 26, 2017, taken over the second carrier (Photo: Digital Globe)

Does China stop at a navy with "only" two aircraft carriers? The answer is certainly no.

Indeed, the first sheet metal cut of the 3rd Chinese carrier, a conventional CATOBAR with three catapults according to some sources close to the file, would already have started at the Jiangnan Changxing Shipyard located in Shanghai.

Its displacement is expected to be around 68,000 tons, about 12,000 tons more than the two Chinese STOBARs. We believe he could join the ranks of the Chinese Navy by 2022.

Here are the dates to remember about the first two Chinese aircraft carriers and our forecasts on the third:

Main Milestones STOBAR Type 001
(16 Liaoning), Dalian
STOBAR Type 001A
Dalian
CATOBAR Type 002
Shanghai

General Conception Completed in 2007 Started in early 2012
Initial technical design Completed in March 2015 (?)
Review made in July 2015
Detailed technical design Completed in June 2008
Signature of the contract with the shipyard March 2009
Industrial Process Design Completed in 2nd semester 2009
Cutting sheet metal 28 August 2013 Early 2017
Construction of sections Started in January 2014 End of 2017
Laid down 10 March 2015 Early 2019
Arming of enclosed compartments Completed at the end of 2009
Offshore April 26, 2017 Before mid-2020
Pond tests Started in 2nd half of 2010
Testing at sea Started on August 10, 2011
Admission to active service 25 September 2012 Prev: September 2019 Around 2022
But what we need to remember is not how many aircraft carriers or aircraft China is capable of building, but its unwavering determination to remain technologically independent, its desire to regain a place at the top of all Peoples as it was time in the past, and that completeness of its industrial chains which may not be on the Western level for each brick individually speaking, but are fundamentally complete and prepared for external disturbances.

And this is perhaps what makes this country less "controllable" than other emerging countries, like India, for example, and therefore much less appreciated by the political powers of the West.

I was in China for business when the 2nd aircraft carrier was put on the air. I was not able to follow the event live, but when I saw the television report in the evening on the way back to the hotel, the first sentence of the Chinese national anthem - "The Walking of the Volunteers" - is me Immediately came to mind:

" Standing ! We no longer want to be slaves, it is with our flesh that we will build our new wall. "

And what I saw this time in China, a few years after my last passage, also reminds me of the last sentence of the same hymn:

"Forward! Forward! Forward! "

To be continued…
 
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