No doubt she is good looking, and I dare say the Chinese did a wonderful job of resurrecting the Varyag, but no doubt this will be a much better boat in the long run, and she does look very "put together" the Liaoning looks great as well.
CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations
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No doubt she is good looking, and I dare say the Chinese did a wonderful job of resurrecting the Varyag, but no doubt this will be a much better boat in the long run, and she does look very "put together" the Liaoning looks great as well.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
I don't necessarily classify her as generations behind because she is a 'different' type of carrier than USN CVNs however I do acknowledge that her design dates back to the 80s but in the case of the carrier that is not as relevant as say a destroyer, frigate etc.
The role of a carrier is simply to launch and recover aircraft effectively and efficiently. If she does that well she is good to go. For her to do that well, she has to have the systems in place to support such a task. This includes modern reliable subsystems, crew living conditions etc Everything else is really secondary.
The Kutz while having the same bones is a much different story. Her systems are old, not well maintanined and many things in her are literally broken. Half the toilets, plumbing vents etc are in dismal shape. Because of these, she can't be an effective carrier even though to the casual observer she looks and acts like a carrier. She had a difficult time maintaining any effective sortie rates in her recent stint in Syria because the supporting systems prevented that.
Once PLAN starts to build CVNs then we can do more of an apples to apples comparison.
The Ford is a class of it's own simply because no one else has anything like her.
Sortie rates based on airwing composition and availability is what matters most but we won't know that until much later in the future.
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Intrepid
Major
Second note: when draft increases, freeboard decreases and the deck becomes wet in rough sea states.
A heavy ship is not necessarily a better ship. Weight reduction is a reason why aircraft carriers are freed from their guns and other weapons.
The flightdeck of Kuznetsov and Liaoning is about 15 meters above the waterline. That is 25% less than the flightdeck of a Nimitz-class carrier.
With the bulbous bow Type 001A gets some additional volume below waterline. But I think that is only a few hundred tons worth.
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To follow up on the story, China's Ministry of Defense apologizes for the error in yesterday's regular MOD press conference. The MOD spokesman Yang YuJun said it was a mistake and while the editor made the mistake, the relevant leadership is responsible for it. He also said, the particular WeiBo post and the following comments by netizens will be left there unchanged as a reminder for future.
I applaud this unprecedented apology; it's actually good PR, compared to trying to be evasive or simply delete the post.
Blackstone
Brigadier
I don't know about that, Jeff. Away from land based air support, comprehensive USN, USAF, US Space, and US Cyber commands would make mincemeat out of the Shandong CBG. I affirm China's impressive accomplishment in such a small span of time, it is amazing. I also believe the Liaoning and Shandong CBGs could project power against its SCS neighbors, especially with support from Chinese newly created bases in the SCS. But, even the combined efforts of both Liaoning and Shandong CBGs stand no chance against even the retired Kittyhawk CBG. The comprehensive military, including nuclear attack subs, is just too wide between US and China at this point in time. I'm not trying to denigrate Chinese achievements, they are impressive indeed, I'm merely pointing out the stark naked truth: PLAN isn't up to USN standards yet, and wouldn't be for several decades.
Intrepid
Major
In twenty or thirty years, when naval air power is needed, China can rely on forty years of experience in operating aircraft carriers. That is the reason, why China is building and using aircraft carriers although no war is in sight yet.
vesicles
Colonel
Dear Blackstone, I am literally scratching my head at this point. Why do you always want to rain on the parade? Jeff is simply making a compliment to the incredible advances that the PLA has made. Nowhere does he compare the PLAN and the USN and conclude that the newly launched Shandong would be able to defeat the USN. Nowhere! He says " the US will have to respect and be wary of". You don't have to achieve peer quality to demand "respect". I think Jeff is plain clear about that. The PLAN has reached certain stage of their capability, which can allow them to potentially inflict enough damage to its opponents, enough to demand respect. The PLAN is still a long way from being comparable to the mighty USN. Not a single person on this planet would think otherwise.
IMHO, it's one thing to strive to be a critical thinker, but it doesn't mean you have to rain on everyone's parade all the time... Especially when it's about something that is so plainly clear.
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Blackstone
Brigadier
Sure, maybe 20 to 40 years from now CN might approach USN carrier operation. I have no issues with your statement.
Blackstone
Brigadier
Vesicles, I'm no less amazed with China advancements than most here, but my retort to Jeff was more for putting a finer point on US being wary of current PLAN CBGs, and not to be a wet blanket. I appreciate the sensitivities of some SDF posters, and I'm replying to you thus to address them too. Nevertheless, sensitivities don't mean excessive self-censorship, and hecklers shouldn't get vetos. I suppose I could include caveats with most sensitive posts, but after a while they become proforma and lose potency.
I appreciate your constructive criticism, and I hope this message addresses your concerns.
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