CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations

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schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think Liaoning, with all capability that it has now, is a defensive aircraft carrier. Her range of power projection will be limited to the north area of SCS and East China Sea. If China wants to project power far from her mainland, they need bigger A.C that able to bring bigger aircrafts like AWACS, etc.

I think it depends a lot on the situation and the opponent - the new british aircraft carriers will also rely on AEW helicopters instead of fixed wing AWACS and they are very much meant for power projection and not just fleet defence.

Let's imagine a civil war in Africa where a faction hostile to chinese interests manages to take over the local airforce and China wanted to intervene either to evacuate its citizens or to help a china friendly faction.

I think a chinese task force with Liaoning to provide air support and some 071s to land marines would be quite adequate. Without the air support provided by the aircraft carrier, this kind of mission might involve much more risk.
 

Intrepid

Major
When the Russians travel to the Mediterranean with the old Kuznetsov, the Chinese are able to visit
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with the aircraft carrier Liaoning. Of course, this has no military use. They simply mark their territory.
 

advill

Junior Member
The RN used their old Carriers successfully for many years for various operations, and so has Russia recently deploying its carrier off Syria. It really depends on types of operational uses. The USN is experienced in Carrier and Naval operations since WW II, when its fleet/s destroyed the IJN in the sea battles: Midway and others in the Pacific in 1940s. A few countries in the past 30+ years are trying to play "catch-up" in building up their fleets including Carriers in India and Japan (helo-destroyers). Obviously China has also expanded their Naval/Maritime capabilities rapidly, with the "Liaoning" and a good number of modern warships, and more being built in Chinese shipyards. The PLA-N is a naval force to be reckon with, as advanced training and more ships are added to its Fleets. New naval strategies continue to develop with advanced technology, including missiles from afar that can destroy Carriers. Let me now take this opportunity to wish all Chinese friends "Gong Xi Fa Cai", and May the Year of the Rooster be peaceful for all of us.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
@Equation , the US is doing something.

They are asserting the right to Freedom of Navigation. Nothing wrong with that...it is every nation's right. They are just punctuating it in the SCS.

China is improving its islands and belongings in the South China Sea...making entire Islands out of what once were simply reefs. The US sailing past those new islands is not going to change them.

The Chinese improving those islands is not going to stop the US from conducting FON operations.

Neither side can stop the other short of war...which neither side wants.

So they will both do, as I have been saying for years, what they are doing to show their own people and allies that they have the will and the capability of doing those things.

That is something on both sides. But the position that has been strengthened in the SCS is China's. They have new bases, in strong proximity and position of each other.

It is forcing the US to spend more time doing FON in the are to make their point.

Short of one side doing something stupid...I do not see this changing. it is the new reality and both sides are going to end up accepting it IMHO.

Yes that's true, but FON is just nothing more than a dog and pony show to satisfy their whatever allies war hawk society. There's no actual conflict or combat to prevent China from ever claiming their sovereignty over the SCS is the main point.
 

MwRYum

Major
I think it depends a lot on the situation and the opponent - the new british aircraft carriers will also rely on AEW helicopters instead of fixed wing AWACS and they are very much meant for power projection and not just fleet defence.

Let's imagine a civil war in Africa where a faction hostile to chinese interests manages to take over the local airforce and China wanted to intervene either to evacuate its citizens or to help a china friendly faction.

I think a chinese task force with Liaoning to provide air support and some 071s to land marines would be quite adequate. Without the air support provided by the aircraft carrier, this kind of mission might involve much more risk.
That's a bad example.

See, countries on the African continent, save a few at the north and the one at the south, most are just dirt poor, barely able to own an airforce is quite a perk on its own, much less to operate one in any meaningful manner. Now, those who could "operate" one are mostly of transport assets, those of the better-off ones would own a few COIN planes when comes to offensive assets.

Now, the tried and tested rule of coup d'etat is, if one side able to deploy airforce in any meaningful manner, victory for that side is pretty much a foregone conclusion. When come to consider how small those central African nations typically are, a faction (loyalist or coup faction, take your pick) that can get the airforce onto their side, that coup would be over before the week's end.

Typically however, you'd find the local airforce grounded instead, and then things takes the more typical "how soon the country tear itself apart" route.

And a week is about how long for the PLAN to deploy a carrier taskgroup from China's home waters. Remember, it would be a few decades more of buildup, before China has enough carrier assets to comfortably deploy a taskgroup overseas on constant rotation basis.

And the local airforce which typically of the low-tier quality (if not also quantity), if deployed at all, can easily be dealt with by MANPAD or shipborne SAMs.

Thus, if and when China got invited to bring its navy into play under such scenario, you'd more likely see them re-task the PLAN anti-piracy expedition group to there (due to the fact they're the closest assets deployable, could get there within 72 hours or less); with a typical operation scenario of evacuating expats and such, should the local air force were deemed hostile and require pre-empt neutralisation (an aggressive "strike-first" policy...can't foresee China make such a change of policy but who knows?), LACM strikes on hostile air fields carried out by 052D/055 while local (port of evacuation) air defense carried out by 054A/B, either docked or parked just off the coast; evac is carried out via docked ships, with perhaps helicopter extraction of HVIs like ambassadors.

The typical nature of central African nations means that things would largely settle down before a non-African power getting dragged into play - the only way for it to be otherwise would be the central African region become the "new Cold War" frontline, with China backing a bloc and some other (like Japan) backing another competing bloc..

And need me to remind you, that the Liaoning is a training carrier? That means overseas combat deployment is going to be the least possible opportunity.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Yes that's true, but FON is just nothing more than a dog and pony show to satisfy their whatever allies war hawk society. There's no actual conflict or combat to prevent China from ever claiming their sovereignty over the SCS is the main point.
The US sailing large battle groups, or even SAGs through there at will shows that China does not have absolute sovereignty or ownership in the SCS. They have possessions there which they are improving...but the very idea of China asserting a sovereign claim to the whole of the SCS is ridiculous and flies in the face of any normal international relations in the area. so the US sails through to show that she and her allies can because Freedom of Navigation is also a staple to freedom in open waters and oceans. I expect to see Australian, Great Britain, India, Vietnam, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and others sail through there over the next years...just to punctuate that those waters are international and not the soverign territory of China or any other nation.
 
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