CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations

[bd popeye]

Not an entirely fair comparison since the Kuznetsov is scheduled for a midlife refit in 2017 which means these photos represent Kuznetsov at her dirtiest and Liaoning at her cleanest.

For a capital ship to go 31 years without any sort of major overhaul is inexcusable by any navy.

The photos I've seen of the Russian carrier shows a ship in poor material condition.

Those engineering spaces look like a disaster waiting to happen.

I've mentioned many times that PLAN ships always appear in a pristine condition.

Any chance for Russia to buy Chinese carrier?

Ah...no. and even if Russia could buy this ship would they take care of it?

There isn't any excuse for what look like poor maintenance culture, whether it is due for a major overhaul or not and as I always say the equipment would perform as it looks, in this case a disaster waiting to happen, boilers have been known explode. It looks like it is being held together by duct tapes and a prayer......

Exactly....100% correct.

 

[Blitzo]

The Kuznetsov was launched 31 years ago next month and has not had a major overhaul during this entire period of time. Even with poor maintenance practices on the part of the Russians this is not a fair comparison.

I agree that the comparison is not fully fair, but I think that even accounting for lack of a major deep overhaul (though the ship has had a few minor refits over its service life), the visual appearance of that particular space still looks rather unseemly.

This isn't necessarily to say the Russian Navy is doing a bad job or anything, but I think it does reflect the funding they have access to which not only translates into big ticket items like major overhauls for ships, but also more everyday things like routine maintenance and cleaniness of facilities by the crew.


Still, we don't really know when this picture of the Kuznetsov's space was taken, whether it was at sea or after a period of inactivity at dock, which may make its visual appearance more forgivable.

 

[Iron Man]

For a capital ship to go 31 years without any sort of major overhaul is inexcusable by any navy.

The photos I've seen of the Russian carrier shows a ship in poor material condition.

Those engineering spaces look like a disaster waiting to happen.

Not sure what "inexcusable" means for a navy with a severe shortage of funds. You can't get what you can't pay for.

I agree that the comparison is not fully fair, but I think that even accounting for lack of a major deep overhaul (though the ship has had a few minor refits over its service life), the visual appearance of that particular space still looks rather unseemly.

This isn't necessarily to say the Russian Navy is doing a bad job or anything, but I think it does reflect the funding they have access to which not only translates into big ticket items like major overhauls for ships, but also more everyday things like routine maintenance and cleaniness of facilities by the crew.


Still, we don't really know when this picture of the Kuznetsov's space was taken, whether it was at sea or after a period of inactivity at dock, which may make its visual appearance more forgivable.

I'm sure funding has a lot to do with the state of that photo in addition to any other factors. In any case this comparison represents a new Liaoning next to an old Kuznetsov. I would rather wait for some photos of the Kuznetsov boiler room maybe a year or two post-overhaul (if such photos ever surface) and make an apples to apples comparison at that time.

 

[KIENCHIN]

You really can't compare the two, Kuznetsov is more than 30 year old while Liaoning was just newly rebuilt. I read somewhere that wherever Kuznetsov goes, a tug always accompanies it so if engines die, it can towed home.

Gentlemen I am a service technician by trade and work on some pretty big commercial equipment 30 years of apiece of equipment that spend half it's life in port is nothing. I have well kept machinery in data centers that had clocked 160000 run hrs and more then 25 years old that performs just as good as new. Let's move on everyone's personal view is respected cheers

 

[delft]

The increase in cooperation between the navies is likely to inspire the Russian navy to improve as money becomes available.

 

[bd popeye]

Not sure what "inexcusable" means for a navy with a severe shortage of funds. You can't get what you can't pay for.

In my opinion as an old salt if the Russians could not maintain the ship properly they should have laid it up until they did have the funds to take care of it.

About 10 years ago the USN had a carrier, John F Kennedy, whose catapults , arresting and some of it's engineering was useless because of "deferred" maintenance. Finally the ship was decommissioned and placed on the stricken list.

I stated this back then;

19 FEB 2006

CV-67 taken out of service

It is not beyond me to take my lumps as far as the USN is concerned. As much "good news" and "happy pics" of the USN I post of the USN I need also to post negative news.

The USN has decertified the USS John F Kennedy CV-67 because the arresting gear is in such poor shape. Thereby making it dangerous to land on the "JFK". Last year the USN wanted to decomission the Kennedy. So the money saved operating this ship could be put to other uses...But congress inacted a couple of laws to force the USN to maintain a CV force of 12 ships. Well the USN balked...cancelled the Kennedy's $350 million dollar re-fit. and relegated the JFK to training new pilots...In the mean time the USN has for years "deferred" maintenance on the JFK to a point it is in such a state it is now unsafe..That's not the only problem. There are all sorts of problems with the engineering plant because of deferred maintenance. The boilers are in very poor shape...The USN let this once great ship go to hell. Shame on them. It's embarrassing..

'nuff said...

 

[bd popeye]

I really feel we are bearing off topic...that being stated ...this Hungarian military forum has some photos taken aboard the RUN ADM"K" earlier this year...get your translator ready....

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Trying to get back on topic...Nice photo essay of Liaoning....

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[schenkus]

Do we know how often Liaoning leaves the harbour and how much time she spends at sea ?

I guess with a ship this size, this can't really be a secret but I haven't seen this kind of information.

 

[bd popeye]

Do we know how often Liaoning leaves the harbour and how much time she spends at sea ?

I guess with a ship this size, this can't really be a secret but I haven't seen this kind of information.

Yes we do. we have a member named Franklin that kept track of the ships movements. Gotta blow the dust off this one...three plus years old;

Sea trails under shipyard

first sea trial (10 august 2011 – 13 august 2011) (3 days)
second sea trial (28 november 2011 – 10 december 2011) (12 days)
third sea trial (20 december 2011 – 29 december 2011) (9 days)
fourth sea trial (7 january 2012 – 16 january 2012) (9 days)
fifth sea trial (19 april 2012 – 30 april 2012) (11 days)
sixth sea trial (7 may 2012 – 16 may 2012) (9 days)
seventh sea trial (23 may 2012 – 1 june 2012) (9 days)
eighth sea trial (7 june 2012 – 21 june 2012 ) (14 days)
ninth sea trial (6 july 2012 – 30 july 2012) (24 days)
tenth sea trial (27 august 2012 – 30 august 2012) (3 days)

total 103 days at sea in 1 year and 20 days

Sea trials under PLAN (commissioned on 25 september 2012)

first sea trial (11 october 2012 – 30 october 2012) (19 days)
second sea trail (12 november 2012 – 25 november 2012) (13 days)
third sea trial (11 june 2013 - 3 july 2013) (22 days)

total days at sea 157 days

I did not bother to look for any updated post about CV-16 at sea periods.

 

[Gloire_bb]

For a capital ship to go 31 years without any sort of major overhaul is inexcusable by any navy.

She needs not just major overhaul, but very deep upgrade. To the point, when scale of difference with original will be +/- comparable to one of Liaoning. She appeared at such lucky time, what a lot of critical systems never even worked - for example, because of need to literally run away from homeport.

1. There is one actual shipbuilding enterprise in modern Russiawith ability to do such upgrades, one at time. Spot was taken by Vikramaditya, now - by Nakhimov.
2. From known details, both Nakhimov and Vikramaditya overhauls and upgrades are comparable(in price) to yearly(!) allocations for new shipbuilding in 2000s.
3. There always were priorities. One-of-a-kind warship is important, but most important capitsl ships of Russian navy, ones which form core of its capability lurk beneath.
Kuznetsov is unlikely to be cheaper than them, at very least.