I don't necessarily think that the PLA at this point is behind its immediate opponents in general in terms of doctrine or equipment, but not getting involved wrt this crisis is simply being prudent irrespective of how strong or weak one is.
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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I don't necessarily think that the PLA at this point is behind its immediate opponents in general in terms of doctrine or equipment, but not getting involved wrt this crisis is simply being prudent irrespective of how strong or weak one is.
china is not a lackey or vassal state to anyone. they have an independent foreign policy and they will remain partial and fair in an accident like this. the Chinese are very prudent and careful about their statements they don't go yakking out to the world press before they know exactly what had happened.
Some satellite photos released by Russian Defense Ministry alleging MH17 crashed within the operating zones of Ukrainian army's self propelled Buk System. Please take this with a grain of salt. However, these are the first satellite photos released by either side. Still waiting for US to release its satellite photos.
Russian defense ministry seems to be asking why Ukrainian Buk system moved from its base into rebel area shortly before the shoot down.
Russian defense ministry seems to be asking why Ukrainian Buk system moved from its base into rebel area shortly before the shoot down.
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Even I know that the operational ceiling is not the same as the absolute ceiling. The SU-25 can indeed achieve altitudes of 10,000m plus for limited periods. Not though an optimal altitude for ground attack.
Russia presented evidence both on the SU-25 and the movement of Ukrainian BUK M1 at the time of the shooting down. This seems to provide options for both an Air to Air shoot down as well as a SAM attack by Ukrainian forces.
My own thoughts; based on what I now understand about the BUK M1, is the Frogfoot in position behind the Jet Liner, would be perfect for using its targeting RADAR to provide the terminal guidance to the BUK as it passed out of its pursuit comfort zone.
With the Ukrainians firmly in the frame, it is a small blessing that at least the wreck did not land in Ukrainian controlled territory and that as a consequence critical evidence will have been preserved and handed over intact to the International Aviation Experts and Malay Officials, who eventually arrived in Donetsk after being inexplicably detained in Kiev for several days.
Another point of course, within an hour of the crash, the Ukrainians, the US and others claimed to have incontrovertible evidence that the Self Defence Militia's were responsible. Russia said it was going to review the information from its instruments and provide a report. Four days on and the Russian Defence Ministry has produced a detailed and compelling report. We are still waiting though for Washington and its allies to produce anything more solid than Innuendo and hearsay. Time I think to put up or shut up.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Well, actually, Su-25 has two R-95 (or R-195 for improved variant) engines . These are somewhat simplified and more rugged versions of R-13 engines for Mig-21 and Su-15 . I'm not saying R-95 would be good enough for high-altitude interceptor, but I'm pretty certain that Su-25 could fly over 10 000 m without payload (or with just two R-60 missiles) .
As for Russian propaganda, it would be much easier for them to claim that Ukrainian Su-27 or Mig-29 downed unfortunate passenger plane .
thunderchief
Senior Member
No radar on Su-25, especially one compatible with Buk .
Not wishing to belabour a point, but I am sure that for "a very special operation" that they could sling a pod of the appropriate capability underneath it.
I also recommend Peter Lee's article in ATOL this morning that makes a number of very salient observations regarding this business.
Additional remarks:
Prime minister Rutte insisted that the bodies be transported to Ukraine, preferably Kharkov, as has happened in the mean time, thus implicitly recognizing the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. Even so Dutch diplomats were unable to arrange the practical details. That was left to the Malaysians who also received the black boxes.
Prime minister Rutte insisted that the bodies be transported to Ukraine, preferably Kharkov, as has happened in the mean time, thus implicitly recognizing the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. Even so Dutch diplomats were unable to arrange the practical details. That was left to the Malaysians who also received the black boxes.
thunderchief
Senior Member
I doubt Ukraine is capable of creating such a pod, and also why would they want to do that ? They already have fighters equipped with radars and missiles. For a false flag operation it is enough just to shoot down the plane in area held by rebels and they would be automatically proclaimed guilty by Western media .
Independent investigation is impossible at this moment, both sides have vested interests , therefore we could only guess what really happened . Truth would probably emerge only after significant passage of time, at least 20 years from now.
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