Crisis in the Ukraine

MONDAY, JULY 21, 2014

The Russian military finally speaks!

Finally! The Russian military has decided to speak out about some of what it knows about what happened to MH17. It was a typical Russian event: the interpreters were nothing short of *terrible* (I speak as a former military interpreter myself), the visual aids were badly designed (the shape of a SU-24 bomber was used to represent a totally different SU-25 close air support aircraft), and there was no Q&A. See for yourself:

{http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSpeo5RcQQo}

Still, a few very interesting things came out of this press conference.

First, the Ukies have been caught lying about their military aircraft in the area of the disaster. They had claimed that no UAF aircraft were in the area. The Russians have shown the recorded radar tracks which reveal the following: there was what appears to have been a military aircraft (with no transponder) flying below 5000m which suddenly began climbing just before MH17 was hit by some kind of missile. This unidentified aircraft then stayed and observed as MH17 fell to the ground. The Russians added that a SU-25 armed with a R-60 air to air missile could have shot down MH17. Maybe. But what is certain is that the civilian radars did detected this strange Ukie aircraft.

Now, these radar tracks are from *civilian* radars. The Russians apparently are not willing to share the data from their military radars. This is why this mysterious Ukie aircraft 'appears' at 5'000m altitude and then 'disappears' again, but you can be certain that their military radars, especially on their A-50 AWACs did track that aircraft before and after its strange maneuver. Again, I think that the Russians hope that the experts will come to the correct conclusions on the basis of what they have shown today and that they will not have to reveal more. But we can be certain that they have the full picture and that they know exactly what happened.

Second, the Russians are challenging their American colleagues to show the images they claim show the launch of the BukM1 rocket. They also point out at the interesting coincidence that an US experimental launch detection satellite was exactly over the area at the moment of the tragedy. Clearly, they are tossing the world experts some kind of lead here, but I am not sure what this is.

Third, the Russians have shown their own space-based imagery which shows that one battery of BukM1 had been moved just prior to the incident (See for yourself here). It will be interesting to see if the Ukies explain what is shown on these picture and, if yes, how?

As a public information this conference gets a C+ but as a lead for experts I would give it a much higher A-. We know have hard proof that the Ukies lied at least twice. They lied about the footage of the Buk missiles being moved back to Russia (the footage was taken in Ukie-occupied territory) and they most definitely lied when they denied having any military aircraft in the area when in reality they had one in the immediate proximity of MH17. That is a huge lie which the Ukies will have a very hard time dismissing.

As I said in my first post about MH17, I have no hope whatsoever that the western plutocracy will ever admit that the junta did it. Ditto for the corporate presstitues of the MSM, but I do hope that the world will see this tragedy for what is clearly was: a deliberate false flag on the part of the Nazi junta in Kiev. As David Chandler correctly points out about 9/11, the proof of a cover up is in itself already a proof of a conspiracy.

The Saker
POSTED BY VINEYARDSAKER: AT 15:22

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Two Ukrainian fighter jets shot down as Kiev accuses Moscow of sending more arms to separatists
By Iana ZagaruikoPublished July 23, 2014FoxNews.comFacebook736 Twitter456

DONETSK, Ukraine – Two Ukrainian military fighter jets were reportedly shot down over the nation’s contested eastern region on Wednesday, even as U.S. and Ukrainian sources said Russian weaponry has been pouring in to separatists following the downing of a Malaysian passenger plane last week.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry said two Sukhoi-25 fighters were shot down Wednesday afternoon over an area called Savur Mogila. The planes may have been carrying up to two crew members each, according to Defense Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky.

The pilots ejected from the planes but it is not known if they survived, Fox News confirms. A search party is out looking for them.

Reuters reported that Kiev blamed the latest incident on pro-Russian separatists, who are suspected of downing Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 last Thursday, killing all 298 aboard. Although Russia has denied supplying the ethnic Russian separatists with sophisticated Buk surface-to-air missile batteries, the kind suspected of bringing down MH-17, Ukrainian defense officials say heavy weaponry is flowing into the Donetsk region that the separatists now control.

More than a dozen Russian-made multiple launch rocket systems crossed the Ukrainian-Russian border on Tuesday, according to Andriy Lysenko, the spokesman for the information center of the National Security and Defense Council. Those weapons are artillery, and built for shelling land-based targets.

The spokesman said that Russia in recent days had started supplying more sophisticated weapons to militants in eastern Ukraine, in particular, modified Grad systems.

The Grad is a mobile battery mounted on truck fitted with a bank of 40 launch tubes that can be turned away from the unprotected cab. The number of rockets that each vehicle is able to quickly bring to bear on an enemy target makes it effective, especially at shorter ranges. The system has lower precision than classical artillery and cannot be used in situations that call for pinpoint precision.

"Some 14 Grad systems today have crossed the state border. We have documented this and passed the information on to Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council,” Lysenko said.

A U.S. senior intelligence official confirmed that pro-Russian separatists are getting air defense training at a Russian training facility in Rostov, near the Ukraine border, though the official cautioned that it is still not clear who had their finger on the trigger when MH-17 was downed. Significantly, since the shoot down, the senior intelligence official said the Russians have continued to aid the pro-Russian rebels by sending tanks and rocket launchers. The official said the Russians have been deliberately providing equipment to the rebels which is also used by the Ukrainians for plausible deniability.

Lysenko added that Ukrainian servicemen had taken control of several cities occupied by separatists in eastern Ukraine and seized vehicles, ammunition and small weapons. Lysenko said the arsenal has not only Russian markings, but also the relevant documentation.

"You can see the Russian tank T-64 BV, which is not in the records of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. Servicemen seized it during the terrorists' assault on a Ukrainian military unit in Artemivsk,” he said. “Now you see an APC-80, which is also a Russian-made vehicle. These are the accompanying operational documents. There is an official seal of the Russian Federation and a note explaining that this APC was put in commission and it that was received to be used in combat operations."

Moscow, meanwhile, denied supplying military equipment to Russian fighters, who have clashed with Kiev following the Russia's annexation of Crimea in March.

On Monday, Ukrainian officials charged Russian experts were present at the crash site of the Malaysian airliner. U.S. intelligence officials believe the Boeing 777 was likely shot down by a Russian surface-to-air missile in the possession of Kremlin-backed fighters.

“We have confirmed there were Russian military experts disguised as civilians were at the crash site,” Ukrainian Presidential Administration deputy chief Hennadiy Zubko said on July 21 during an interview on Channel 5 TV.

Zubko said Ukrainian emergency workers were initially denied access to site, which is located in an area of eastern Ukraine controlled by Kremlin-backed forces. Zubko said some 350 employees of Ukraine's Emergency Ministry eventually were allowed access to the area, where they recovered 282 bodies and 87 body parts. The remains arrived on July 22 in Kharkiv, from where they will be flown to Holland for identification.

Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, on July 22 said in Kiev that wreckage from the downed plane had been “significantly altered.” international monitors told ABC News today, as remains of the victims arrived in territory held by Bociurkiw said pieces of the front of the plane's cockpit appeared to have been cut away by power tools.

Fox News Channel's Catherine Herridge and Steve Harrigan contributed to this report

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I mean they look very rag tagged with stuff that looks like surplus army store.
Ukraine govt forces look more like soldiers.

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Ukraine says EU reverse gas flows lower on Gazprom opposition
8:57am EDT
KIEV (Reuters) - Ukrainian Energy Minister Yuri Prodan said on Wednesday reverse gas flows from the European Union to Ukraine had fallen because of opposition from Russian gas producer Gazprom.
Ukraine - which consumes around 50 billion cubic metres of gas annually - has increased its efforts to secure more gas from the European Union after Gazprom raised prices for its supplies in a dispute.
"Reverse gas supplies are reduced at present. This is linked to certain actions by Gazprom," Prodan told reporters, adding Ukraine first saw a decrease two weeks ago.
Gazprom declined to comment on Wednesday. The company said on Apr.5 the possibility of importing gas from the West to substitute for Russian supplies raised questions about the legality of such a move.
Gazprom head Alexei Miller has also called the reverse of gas flows from Slovakia to Ukraine "semi-fraudulent".
"You heard the threats Gazprom made to European energy companies that this reverse is illegal."
He said reverse supplies stood at 7 million cubic metres daily on Wednesday versus a possible 18 million. He did not say by how much supplies had fallen in the past two weeks.
On April 28 Bratislava and Ukraine signed a deal allowing the EU to send a limited amount of gas to Ukraine. Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico said combined reverse flows from Slovakia, Hungary and Poland could reach up to around 16-17 bcm annually.
(Reporting by Pavel Polityuk in Kiev and Vladimir Soldatkin in Moscow; Writing by Gabriela Baczynska; editing by Keiron Henderson)

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TerraN_EmpirE said:

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I guess someone has to determine what AA weapons were used to shot down Ukrainian Su-25s. I bet Kiev would say it's Buk and the eastern rebels would say it's MANPADs.

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DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - A powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had anti-aircraft missiles of the type Washington says were used to shoot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

In an interview with Reuters, Alexander Khodakovsky, commander of the Vostok Battalion, acknowledged for the first time since the airliner was brought down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday that the rebels did possess the BUK missile system.

He also indicated that the BUK may have originated in Russia and could have been sent back to remove proof of its presence.

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Kiev says two Su-25 fighter jets shot down, accuses Russia
Published time: July 23, 2014 19:18

Two Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jets were shot down on Wednesday, the Ukrainian Security Council confirmed. Self-defense forces claim to be behind the attack, though Kiev believes anti-aircraft missiles could have been launched from Russia.

The two fighter jets were downed near the village of Dmitrovka, in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, according to the Ukrainian Security Council.

“We [are looking] into the possibility of the missile, which downed the planes, having been launched from the territory of Russia. That’s one of the theories,” a spokesman for the council, Andrey Lysenko, said.

The theory is based on an assumption by the Ukrainian military that anti-Kiev forces in Donetsk and Lugansk do not possess the type of military equipment needed for shooting down the Su-25s.

“Missiles launched from manpads don’t reach such altitudes,” Lysenko said. “The planes have been shot down at the height of 5,200 meters. Only more powerful missile launchers are capable of doing that...[The planes] were downed professionally, the terrorists don’t have such experts.”

Meanwhile, self-defense forces in Ukraine have claimed they downed the jets. In fact, it was they who first broke the news.

“Near Saur-Mogila, a Ukrainian fighter jet was shot down,” the minister of defense of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Strelkov, said, as quoted by Novorossiya website. “The pilot ejected himself. One more plane could have been damaged.”

The self-defense forces posted a video of one of the downed jets to YouTube.

RIA Novosti later received the confirmation from Aleksandr Boroday, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.

“Two Su-25 jets were downed near Dmitrovka,” he said.

A leader of the self-defense forces, who would only give his nickname “Cap,” also confirmed that two jets were downed.

“Both were downed by manpads,” the fighter told LifeNews. “One pilot ejected himself into the forest. We’ve found his parachute and are looking for the pilot himself.”

The militia claims it downed two more fighter jets on Tuesday.

“Yesterday self-defense forces downed two Su-25 jets, the so-called "Grach" ("Rook"). That happened in the sky over Lugansk region, near the towns of Zorinsk and Krasny Luch. There’s yet no information about pilots,” said Vladimir Inogorodtsev, spokesman for the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic, as quoted by RIA Novosti.

The self-defense forces claim they shot the military aircraft down to prevent it from bombing residential areas.

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solarz said:

This may be the only peer-to-peer war we've seen in a long time where both sides have armour. In all other wars, either nobody had armour, or one side was overwhelmingly superior to the other.

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texx1 said:

Don't be angry delft. It's not good for the blood pressure. Not everyone believes crazy slanderous things mentioned by western press and they are diminishing what's left of their own credibility anyway. Even some Americans don't believe the anti-Russian hype in the US media.

Here is an article written by ex-long time US Republican representative Ron Paul. In which he criticizes US media's propaganda campaign against Russia regarding the MH17 crash.

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Air Force Brat said:

Well texx1, my oldest daughter was a Ron Paulonian, so for her, I fashioned myself a nice tin-foil hat(I looked kinda like the TinMan off the Wizard of Oz, and I am picturing you sir, in your lovely tin-foil hat. Hope you will post a picture of yourself in a tin-foil hat, while Ron is nice guy, he criticizes many who are equally nice, and far more well informed on real-life foreign policy, pacifist or isolationist policies are what have brought us to the "Edge of Night", for all of their differences, Mr Obama, and Mr. Paul's foreign policy are mirror images, although Mr. Obama has received an education here in the school of hard nocks, he still is not fully engaged, and that is why we have ex-Russian military equipment, in the hands of what, grown children????? shooting down innocent civilian airliners on international flights. In this instance, Mr. Obama has it dead-right, and for once, he is calling it like "we" see it, and I fully support that "stepping up", yes, we do know who fired that SAM, and we will hold them responsible!

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