SouthernSky
Junior Member
As with anything Broccoli, garbage and hypocrisy is not the sole domain of any one side of the divide.
Crisis in the Ukraine
- Thread starter bd popeye
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As with anything Broccoli, garbage and hypocrisy is not the sole domain of any one side of the divide.
Taken from Slavygrad.org, an account of yesterdays battle around Krasny Luch. It gives plenty of detail and is very honest about the strengths and weaknesses of the militia (has been a refreshing constant throughout much of the conflict)
Please note front page of blog liable to change. If I get a permanent link from Cassad (main source of translations) I will post it.
Please note front page of blog liable to change. If I get a permanent link from Cassad (main source of translations) I will post it.
Jura The idiot
General
I'm back
because of this:
Do you think Freedom Fighters like those two will soon ride Europe?
(I found about them not here, but on a mainstream Polish server:
By the way, contrary to the Russian source quoted above, these individuals appear to be
Rafael Muñoz Pérez, 27 years old, and Angel ?, aged 22, according to
which quotes the original story:
but I don't know any Spanish so it took me some time to locate the Facebook profile (now I know the Ukraine is Ucrania, but this wasn't that helpful as it's a town in Colombia, too, and Facebook seemed to prefer the users down there
Enjoy!
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The practice of presumed innocence until proven guilty goes both ways and applies to everyone, both Americans and non-Americans. Also it is the responsibility of the accuser to provide evidences to support its accusation, not the other way around. Insinuating others who currently hold different views to be posting misinformation or being conspiracy theorists without providing evidences goes against the tenet of presumed innocence.
None of us has access to confidential military documents or sources, we have no choice but to use publicly available information to make our own assessments. I hope US administration would release more empirical information supporting their position. If their evidences turned out to be convincing, I am sure posters here would alter their views accordingly.
Well Frankie, black boxes don't come all bright shiny and new, they have survived a tremendous ordeal, many times the information has to be recovered by extraordinary means. I would suggest that these have some battle damage to say the least, although I believe the early reports stated they did not appear to have been tampered with. So hopefully we will know soon what the flight data recorder says , and the real prize will be the cockpit voice recorder, although that will no doubt be horrific to listen to????
Guys this thread is about:
1. The civil war and military crisis in the Ukraine.
2. Battles and areas of operation.
3. Equipment, material and military strategies.
4. The empirical efforts by Western allies to the Ukraine and the efforts by Russia to support the respective sides in terms of equipment, material, and specific sanction by both sides.
5. Off topic discussion, self admitted or otherwise.
It is NOT about
1. The politics or ideologies of either side.
2. American presidents and their historical quotes.
3. Russian Presidents or Soviet politburo leaders and their historical quotes.
4. Conspiracy theories attempting to place blame, particularly for the MA flight.
5. Hearsay, or quotes or opinions from clear, undocumented or unreliable sources.
I am going to ask Popeye to go thought the last three pages of reports and delete all posts that represent any of those things this thread is not supposed to be about, on either side of the issue, regardless of the source.
This is a warning to stay away from those things on both sides. If we cannot, the thread will be suspended.
Do not respond to this moderation.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THREAD LOCKED by popeye until further review
1. The civil war and military crisis in the Ukraine.
2. Battles and areas of operation.
3. Equipment, material and military strategies.
4. The empirical efforts by Western allies to the Ukraine and the efforts by Russia to support the respective sides in terms of equipment, material, and specific sanction by both sides.
5. Off topic discussion, self admitted or otherwise.
It is NOT about
1. The politics or ideologies of either side.
2. American presidents and their historical quotes.
3. Russian Presidents or Soviet politburo leaders and their historical quotes.
4. Conspiracy theories attempting to place blame, particularly for the MA flight.
5. Hearsay, or quotes or opinions from clear, undocumented or unreliable sources.
I am going to ask Popeye to go thought the last three pages of reports and delete all posts that represent any of those things this thread is not supposed to be about, on either side of the issue, regardless of the source.
This is a warning to stay away from those things on both sides. If we cannot, the thread will be suspended.
Do not respond to this moderation.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THREAD LOCKED by popeye until further review
Last edited by a moderator:
broadsword
Brigadier
Either Ron seems to know something or he may be a little nutty.
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash
The Huffington Post | By Dominique Mosbergen
Posted: 08/10/2014 12:34 pm EDT Updated: 08/10/2014 12:59 pm EDT
The U.S. government "knows a lot more" than it's letting on about the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash and is "likely hiding [the] truth," according to former Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).
In an Aug. 7 post on his news site, Voices of Liberty, Paul said he believes the U.S., with all its intelligence-gathering capabilities, should have a clear idea of what happened on July 17 when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board. But much of that information, he says, has likely been withheld from the public.
"The U.S. government has grown strangely quite on the accusation that it was Russia or her allies that brought down the Malaysian airliner with a buck anti-aircraft missile [sic]," the former GOP presidential candidate wrote. "The little that we have heard from U.S. intelligence is that it has no evidence that Russia was involved. Yet the war propaganda were successful in convincing the American public that it was all Russia’s fault."
"It’s hard to believe that the U.S., with all of its spy satellites available for monitoring everything in Ukraine that precise proof of who did what and when is not available," he added.
The Obama administration has said that pro-Russian separatists who have been trained and equipped by Moscow likely shot down MH17. "We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to the separatists, the arms they have provided to the separatists, the training that they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine," White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told CNN last month.
Russia, however, has denied involvement in the attack and has blamed the Ukrainian government for downing the plane.
"Questions do remain regarding the serious international incident," Paul wrote last week of the MH17 crash. "Too bad we can’t count on our government to just tell us the truth and show us the evidence. I’m convinced that it knows a lot more than it’s telling us."
This isn't the first time that Paul has accused the government of spreading "propaganda" following the MH17 crash. As The Hill points out, Paul -- in the days after the tragedy -- accused the Obama administration and the Western media of "join[ing] together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster." He also suggested at the time that the U.S. might be partly to blame for the crash.
Ron Paul Says U.S. 'Likely Hiding Truth' About MH17 Crash
The Huffington Post | By Dominique Mosbergen
Posted: 08/10/2014 12:34 pm EDT Updated: 08/10/2014 12:59 pm EDT
The U.S. government "knows a lot more" than it's letting on about the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash and is "likely hiding [the] truth," according to former Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).
In an Aug. 7 post on his news site, Voices of Liberty, Paul said he believes the U.S., with all its intelligence-gathering capabilities, should have a clear idea of what happened on July 17 when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board. But much of that information, he says, has likely been withheld from the public.
"The U.S. government has grown strangely quite on the accusation that it was Russia or her allies that brought down the Malaysian airliner with a buck anti-aircraft missile [sic]," the former GOP presidential candidate wrote. "The little that we have heard from U.S. intelligence is that it has no evidence that Russia was involved. Yet the war propaganda were successful in convincing the American public that it was all Russia’s fault."
"It’s hard to believe that the U.S., with all of its spy satellites available for monitoring everything in Ukraine that precise proof of who did what and when is not available," he added.
The Obama administration has said that pro-Russian separatists who have been trained and equipped by Moscow likely shot down MH17. "We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support they provided to the separatists, the arms they have provided to the separatists, the training that they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine," White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes told CNN last month.
Russia, however, has denied involvement in the attack and has blamed the Ukrainian government for downing the plane.
"Questions do remain regarding the serious international incident," Paul wrote last week of the MH17 crash. "Too bad we can’t count on our government to just tell us the truth and show us the evidence. I’m convinced that it knows a lot more than it’s telling us."
This isn't the first time that Paul has accused the government of spreading "propaganda" following the MH17 crash. As The Hill points out, Paul -- in the days after the tragedy -- accused the Obama administration and the Western media of "join[ing] together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster." He also suggested at the time that the U.S. might be partly to blame for the crash.
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