Crisis in the Ukraine

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Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Russia and Ukraine were both part of the greater Soviet Union. However, that does not mean that the Russia loves the Ukraine. So what are the Russians up to and what have they been up to in the past. Seven million Ukrainians dead in a year under Stalin. With Putin being nothing but a product of the old Soviet KGB what would make anyone think the Russians intentions in Ukraine are anything less than evil?

Interestingly certain people in the forum will tell you that "Russians have changed".

But have they?

1. The man who rules the country is a former KGB officer.
2. The Russian anthem is the Soviet anthem.
3. The Russian air force keeps using the red star as insignia.
4. The Russian carrier Aeroflot keeps using the Soviet logo with the hammer and the sickle.
5. Russian children at school learn that Stalin was a great leader.
6. Opposition leaders and journalists are harassed, imprisoned or murdered.
7. Neighboring countries are bullied or invaded.
8. Mental health institutions are still used as punishment (Nadya Savchenko, Ukrainian prisoner in Russia)
9. Westerners are depicted as evil wrongdoers in all kind of media propaganda.
10. Lenin is still in his mausoleum in the Red Square...

But hey, they have a new flag. So they might have changed after all.

Please excuse the sarcasm. It is almost Friday.


I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Miragedriver said:
Russia and Ukraine were both part of the greater Soviet Union. However, that does not mean that the Russia loves the Ukraine. So what are the Russians up to and what have they been up to in the past. Seven million Ukrainians dead in a year under Stalin. With Putin being nothing but a product of the old Soviet KGB what would make anyone think the Russians intentions in Ukraine are anything less than evil?

Interestingly certain people in the forum will tell you that "Russians have changed".

But have they?

1. The man who rules the country is a former KGB officer.
2. The Russian anthem is the Soviet anthem.
3. The Russian air force keeps using the red star as insignia.
4. The Russian carrier Aeroflot keeps using the Soviet logo with the hammer and the sickle.
5. Russian children at school learn that Stalin was a great leader.
6. Opposition leaders and journalists are harassed, imprisoned or murdered.
7. Neighboring countries are bullied or invaded.
8. Mental health institutions are still used as punishment (Nadya Savchenko, Ukrainian prisoner in Russia)
9. Westerners are depicted as evil wrongdoers in all kind of media propaganda.
10. Lenin is still in his mausoleum in the Red Square...

But hey, they have a new flag. So they might have changed after all.

Please excuse the sarcasm. It is almost Friday.


I will now get back to bottling my Malbec
Click to expand...

It's not so much that Russia has changed, but rather the world has changed. The Cold War is over and done with, and nobody wants to go back to it. Despite what many in the West may think, there were no "good guys" in the Cold War. The US and the USSR were vying for global domination, and both sides employed atrocious methods to achieve their aims.

The world is moving toward a multi-polar structure, and it's time to abandon the outdated rhetoric of "us vs them", "good vs evil", or "democracy vs communism".
 
D

Dannhill

Junior Member
So true, so true. No one is totally good, no one is totally bad. To say that there is such is just disingenuous. In politics and world domination, eggs must surely be broken.

solarz said:
It's not so much that Russia has changed, but rather the world has changed. The Cold War is over and done with, and nobody wants to go back to it. Despite what many in the West may think, there were no "good guys" in the Cold War. The US and the USSR were vying for global domination, and both sides employed atrocious methods to achieve their aims.

The world is moving toward a multi-polar structure, and it's time to abandon the outdated rhetoric of "us vs them", "good vs evil", or "democracy vs communism".
Click to expand...
 
D

Dannhill

Junior Member
Strelkov's speech to the press today with partial English subtitles. The main speech is there complete except for the questions from the reporters.

He talks about fifth column of anti-Russia forces next to Putin whose aims are to serve their western masters to ruin Russia for dismemberment, to ensure Russia will remain weak and powerless. Hence, the Minsk accord to save Kiev at a time when the militia were winning on all fronts. The accord is temporary only meant for Kiev forces to regroup and rearm for the coming offensive.

A reporter asked if he will be returning to east Ukraine he answered it very directly so there is no need for second guessing anymore.

He was also asked about Putin's Russian soldiers fighting in east Ukraine and he said that when he was in New Russia the only Russian soldiers he knows about are those who took their vacations to join the militia. Some of them served with him. Now, even though he is not involved in east Ukraine he still knows everything that's happening there and he has no information on these soldiers. Of course we all know he is totally lying because Obama said they are there.

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Jura The idiot

Jura The idiot

General
SampanViking said:
Briefly, the DPR based sources are all saying that reports of Strelkov is disinformation.
He is they say on the Southern front (Shakhtyorsk - Krasny Luch) co-ordinating efforts to trap other Ukrainian units in a new Caudron along the Southern Border- this time far to the West of the Original.
...
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Today he told INTERFAX.RU he wouldn't go back to Donetsk anytime soon etc. (your sources will translate
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for you :)
He announced this probably because almost one month ago
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had told INTERFAX.RU "Strelkov" should be back in one month after his holidays:
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D

Dannhill

Junior Member
There is a new video on
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that showed Kiev forces shooting at civilians in Mariupol with at least 2 casualties seen. Almost all civilians seen in that video were video recording it with their smartphones. Hence, I am really puzzled how Putin's 20,000 Spetnaz and 1,000 T-90 tanks can remain invisible for more than 2 months in east Ukraine.

Rules of the forum might very well be against me posting the actual link so you can go there and see it yourself. The video is not gory except for showing at least 2 civilians being carried away or attended to and some blood stains on the ground.
 
Miragedriver

Miragedriver

Brigadier
solarz said:
It's not so much that Russia has changed, but rather the world has changed. The Cold War is over and done with, and nobody wants to go back to it. Despite what many in the West may think, there were no "good guys" in the Cold War. The US and the USSR were vying for global domination, and both sides employed atrocious methods to achieve their aims.

The world is moving toward a multi-polar structure, and it's time to abandon the outdated rhetoric of "us vs them", "good vs evil", or "democracy vs communism".
Click to expand...

Point noted. However, I am an old “Cold Warrior” and many of us on this forum have had to live under “communism” and it is very different than living in the “West”. It compares to the Evil vs Good concept if you have ever been oppressed.


Bottling my Malbec in freedom from Communism
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Miragedriver said:
Point noted. However, I am an old “Cold Warrior” and many of us on this forum have had to live under “communism” and it is very different than living in the “West”. It compares to the Evil vs Good concept if you have ever been oppressed.


Bottling my Malbec in freedom from Communism
Click to expand...

That's the problem with labels. I too, lived under "communism" and didn't experience any oppression whatsoever. 1.4 billion people continue to live under "communism" and manage to lead fulfilling lives.

A great author once wrote: "If someone starts talking about Good and Evil, you better keep a hand on your wallet."
 
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