Crisis in the Ukraine

Dannhill said:

...all European heads of state because they relinquish their rights to formulate policies good for their own country in favour of being a US tool against their better judgement.

... as with all US Presidents in the last 50 years only has the Hammer to solve all problems. They do it because they can get away with it. Not because they should.

...Hence, the mess the world is in today.

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Danhill, if you want to last very long here on SD, read the rules.

You are going to have to stop making such broad general, subjective statements that try to blame the worlds problems on the US and making such sweeping generalities about the US...or any other country for that matter.

The rules are very specific about respect of other SD members and their nations...and about not making offensive statements in this manner.

As a word to the wise, I would recommend you to consider this advise.

Saker has some numbers of what Kiev had lost since their punitive offensive but prior to the counter offensive by the separatists. Take it with a pince of salt. It's huge figures in everything.

delft said:

Tomorrow the first report on MH17 is to be published based on radar, radio communications and the black boxes. After the truce the remains of the aircraft can be investigated. As they lie in the free area Kiev cannot monkey with them but the results may be long delayed.

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Well, as soon as there is a ceasefire an international investigation team including representatives from all the countries who suffered losses should be granted access to the wreckage and crash site. This is the best and only way to encourage the truth be discovered.

asif iqbal said:

Can someone tell me in a few simple words why NATO was established??

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NATO stands for North Atlantic Treaty Organization and was an alliance created in 1949 specifically to provide the unity and power to thwart and stand against the Soviet Union and its eastern block nations and any further encroachment towards western Europe.

The two sides facing off became NATO and the WARSAW Pact.

After the fall of the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union in 1991, several nations that had been gobbled up after World War II by the USSR applied for and received membership in NATO including:

Hungary
The Czech Republic
Poland
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Slovenia
Slovakia
Bulgaria
Romania

Also, as you know, Turkey was admitted.

There were 12 original members in 1949. There are now 28 nations. It is the largest, most powerful military alliance in the world. Despite its seaming timidness on occasion, and the fact that in many instances there is not broad agreement on small to medium issues...if a major crisis ever arose, it would be a very powerful alliance.

One of Kiev's battalion commanders on why Kiev punitive forces lost the battlefield.

PanAsian said:

Well, as soon as there is a ceasefire an international investigation team including representatives from all the countries who suffered losses should be granted access to the wreckage and crash site. This is the best and only way to encourage the truth be discovered.

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Should. But when the Dutch mission was first sent it let itself be kept in Kiev until it became too dangerous to do more than try to find more human remains en very little was found.
The ceasefire agreement should contain an article that grants access to the investigators.

the rebels claim they have killed more than 100 volunteers from Poland. suppose if the rebels capture some volunteers from Poland, after water-board, some captured confess that they are actually recruited by their gov't, is that an act of war? and how will Putin respond?

They are still volunteers just like 2 of the Americans killed in the conflict so far. Russians were also killed fighting on both sides. Cassad's latest listed a Russian killed fighting for Kiev.

Then there's that Swedish sniper on Kiev's side? It's very much an internationalised civil war.

More interesting would be claims of US mercenary company Blackwater/Academi and Polish mercenaries killed in the fighting.

LesAdieux said:

the rebels claim they have killed more than 100 volunteers from Poland. suppose if the rebels capture some volunteers from Poland, after water-board, some captured confess that they are actually recruited by their gov't, is that an act of war? and how will Putin respond?

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LesAdieux said:

the rebels claim they have killed more than 100 volunteers from Poland. suppose if the rebels capture some volunteers from Poland, after water-board, some captured confess that they are actually recruited by their gov't, is that an act of war? and how will Putin respond?

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Russia probably got the most "volunteers" in this war anyway, what should Putin's respond? Maybe just more volunteers of his own or more regular Russian troops lost their way and wandering into Ukraine by accident?

Atleast everyone fighting there are "volunteers", so it's still relatively under control for now. If you take the mask off and it will go really bad for both side and spiral out of control.

LesAdieux said:

the rebels claim they have killed more than 100 volunteers from Poland. suppose if the rebels capture some volunteers from Poland, after water-board, some captured confess that they are actually recruited by their gov't, is that an act of war? and how will Putin respond?

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If they're indeed "volunteers" ie. not get paid in any way beyond the 3 meals (or less?) given per day, then nobody can accuse anybody really.

And these days, you can't really nail anybody a solid case just because of their gear or passport, except charging them with whatever crime you find it convenient on the process, if you actually give a damn about due process that is...