Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
China Has 5 Vaccine Candidates in Human Trials, With More Coming

China has a total of five possible vaccines for the coronavirus already in human trials and more will be approved next month, signaling the Asian nation’s rapid progress in the race for immunization.

The five vaccines have been tested on more than 2,000 people in phase II trials which are expected to finish in July, said Zeng Yixin, vice minister of the National Health Commission, at a press briefing on Friday in Beijing. Phase II is the second of three phases of human trials that medications must go through before being approved for general use.

No serious side effects have been reported yet among phase II patients, said Zeng, adding that more vaccine candidates will be approved to go into human trials in June.

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I am aware of 4 of these vaccines (below). But the article did not name of the 5th vaccine maker.
  • Cansino Biologics
  • Sinovac
  • Sinopharm / China National Biotec Group (CNBG) / Wuhan Institute of Biological Products (in collaboration with Wuhan Institute of Virology under the Chinese Academy of Sciences )
  • Sinopharm / China National Biotec Group (CNBG) / Beijing Institute of Biological Products Co Ltd (in collaboration with China Center for Disease Control and Prevention)
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Lol. But Trump haven't gotten any info from china on covid yet... Especially since in January no cases in US. How can they start vaccine by then?

This is like performance enhancing drugs in sports. They think there's one test that detects all drug cheats. That's why they think their athletes are clean. No, there has to be a test for every cheat in order to be detected. So every time a new cheat is developed, it can't be detected until sports authorities know about it and can create a test for it. That's why people think their athletes don't cheat because their "one tests fits all" mindset would've detected it if they were. And who comes up with new cheats? Advanced countries. And who gets caught are countries and people who don't have easy access to sports medicine facilities because they're not rich. By the time they can get their hands on those drugs, sports authorities already know about it and have the tests to detect them. They come up with new cheats all the time. Sports authorities that are in charge of testing athletes use to take blood samples and then dispose of them after testing. They only until recently started keeping blood samples to check so after new tests have been developed because of the lag time between creation of new cheats and the tests for detection.

That's why Trump got in trouble blaming Obama for not having a test back during his Presidency for detecting COVID-19 when it's a new coronavirus. You can't start to create a test nor a vaccine if you don't know about it. Trump's lies contradict his charges.
 

Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
OK, I would like to take some time to discuss a little more about the conspiracy theory on the potential leak of the SARS-CoV-2 virus from a Wuhan virology lab. I find this theory to be even more unlikely than the bioweapon hypothesis.

Let me first say that, a virus has to go through two major hurtles to successfully transmit among individuals of another species. It has to acquire multiple mutations to successfully jump from species A and species B. Then it has to acquire multiple additional mutations to transmit among individuals of species B. Take the SARS-CoV-2 virus, it starts out in bats. It must acquire numerous mutations to jump from bat to human. Then it stays in a "bat-to-human" mode for a long time until it acquires additional multiple mutations in order to do "human-to-human" transmission. Both processes take a long time to finish, decades and maybe centuries.

A good example is the MERS virus. For many many years, the virus stayed on camel and did not affect any human including the camel caretakers. Then, some viruses managed to jump to human, accomplishing the "camel-to-human" jump. However, these virus still could not do "human-to-human". Thus, for many years, we see camel caretakers get sick after contacting their camels, but did not get their families and friends sick. Finally, some virus acquired additional mutations and finally able to do "human-to-human" transmission. These processes took a long time to finish.

Then, let's look at the lab leak scenario. Let's keep in mind that, in this scenario, it was a natural virus being leaked into the public accidentally. As President Trump said, someone made a stupid mistake and did a stupid thing. So natural virus and accidental leak. Under these assumptions, the SARS-CoV-2 virus would have to undergo ALL the necessary mutations naturally without human help (keep in mind that this is not a genetic manipulation scenario, which has been totally and entirely and completely disproved and refuted by the scientific community, intelligence community, President Trump and Secretary Pompeo). As such, a natural Coronavirus is first isolated from bats in the wild. Since most of the bats in the wild do not contact human, most likely these viruses had not contacted any human. Then this virus is kept in a lab, living comfortably in flasks and jars designed to give them the most ideal environment and nutrition. They still do not contact human since even the sloppiest techs in the sloppiest labs would not intentionally expose themselves to terrible viruses on a regular basis. So no human contact and very little chance for the viruses to acquire mutations to adapt lives in human bodies.

Then one fateful day in late 2019, someone accidentally gets some of these viruses on them. So this would be the first time for these viruses to see a human being. Then this person walks to the wet market some minutes to hours later. This would again be the first time for these viruses to see a whole bunch of human beings. So, in a few minutes to hours, these viruses would have to undergo dozens and dozens of mutations, which normally require decades to centuries to acquire, to complete "bat-to-human" jump and "human-to-human" jump. Again, either of these steps would normally take decades to centuries to finish by countless different populations of viruses and different bunches of human beings. I don't think this is possible even if these viruses have been blasted by tons of intense radiation to speed up mutation frequency.

So, within a matter of a few minutes to hours after being in contact with human for the first time, a natural bat virus suddenly acquires dozens and dozens of mutations to finish "bat-to-human" and "human-to-human" jumps??? This is physically impossible in the natural world. Of course, virtually everyone in the world has ruled out the possibility of any genetic manipulation. Then lab leak is also impossible.

The proponents of the lab leak scenario have listed so many examples of previous accidental lab leaks all around the world. However, all these examples involve the kinds of pathogens that have already been capable of infecting human before they are put in labs. Like Ebola and malaria, they have been isolated from patients and have possessed the ability to infect human. Of course, immediately upon being leaked out, these pathogens have no problem re-adapting their favorite living condition in human bodies. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is obviously very different. It's a bat virus and has not seen any human before the hypothetical leak.

Of course, the virus can be leaked decades ago, allowing enough time for the virus to mutate naturally and jump back and forth between bats and human and finally accomplishing human to human transmission (much like the MERS)... but what is the evidence of that? Plus, the P4 lab in Wuhan was built only a few years ago...

This is a very good analysis. However, there's a slight misunderstanding here. A virus in a laboratory does not live "comfortably in flasks and jars designed to give them the most ideal environment and nutrition."

Actually, what happens is that the virus is killed and cut into pieces by a chemical process. Researchers don't study live virus; they study dead pieces of the virus.

Now, some of the virus is put alive into deep freeze for reference. However, researchers never study the deep frozen virus; they only study the dead virus chopped into pieces. Also, unsurprisingly, many deep frozen viruses are unable to revive even if unfrozen (which is not something a laboratory would ever do in the first place).

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coolieno99

Junior Member
Here is the original article that you are talking about.

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Secondly, the original parent strain used in their study for comparing all the viral genomes was isolated from a Yunnan local bat species. And the authors of your article also said that the type-A strain evolved from this parent strain found in Yunnan bats. So how do you think a virus, that lives in a bat species local to central China of Yunnan province, managed to jump across half of China and the entire Pacific ocean and infect Americans? And while doing so, not touching a single Chinese in between? Did the Americans sneak into China and steal some Chinese bats and bring them back to the US? Then they infect their own people and went back to China? Uhhhh. How do you plan to prove any of these?
Read the caption underneath the photo in the following link. The coronavirus was most likely obtained from China via $ 3.7 million U.S. government grant given to China to collect and study bats collected in Yunnan province (it's not in central China, it's in southwest China).

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Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is highly unusual for a scientific journal to get into this level of politics. This can turn into a significant distraction for a very well regarded international scientific journal.

Lancet editorial blasts Trump’s ‘inconsistent and incoherent’ coronavirus response

One of the world’s oldest and best-known medical journals Friday slammed President Trump’s “inconsistent and incoherent national response” to the novel coronavirus pandemic and accused the administration of relegating the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to a “nominal” role.

The unsigned editorial from the Lancet concluded that Trump should be replaced.

“Americans must put a president in the White House come January, 2021, who will understand that public health should not be guided by partisan politics,” said the journal, which was founded in Britain in 1823.

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vesicles

Colonel
This is a very good analysis. However, there's a slight misunderstanding here. A virus in a laboratory does not live "comfortably in flasks and jars designed to give them the most ideal environment and nutrition."

Actually, what happens is that the virus is killed and cut into pieces by a chemical process. Researchers don't study live virus; they study dead pieces of the virus.

Now, some of the virus is put alive into deep freeze for reference. However, researchers never study the deep frozen virus; they only study the dead virus chopped into pieces. Also, unsurprisingly, many deep frozen viruses are unable to revive even if unfrozen (which is not something a laboratory would ever do in the first place).

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Yes, For P2 labs, you would be correct. Viruses are chopped into pieces and studied. And when needed, we could even use modified live viruses. For instance, my own lab is a P2 lab. We heavily use lentivirus, specifically a modified version of HIV. The virus has been modified so that they can no longer replicate once inside host cells. We use them in their entirety and alive since we need them to carry specific DNA plasmids into human cells to intentionally infect them. And we do our best to keep them happy and so that they can efficiently do their job for us. Infecting cancer cells is a tough job. We need our viruses to be in their top physical conditions to finish their job.

P3 andP4 labs, however, study live pathogens unadulterated and live. That’s why it’s so important to have strict protocols in place to prevent contamination and leak.

And when I said these viruses are kept comfortably and happy, I was not joking at all. Since we want to understand how viruses function in their most optimal conditions, we need them to be in their best conditions. While in their flasks and jars, the amount of every ion and sugar content has been carefully tuned to allow the viruses to live in their best conditions possible.
 

Rettam Stacf

Junior Member
Registered Member
China Speed !
  • May 9 : 89 year old tested positive for Covid-19 in Wuhan, ending 35 days of no new cases.
  • May 10 : 5 more tested positive. All linked to the 89 year old tested positive a day earlier.
  • May 12 : China announced all 11 million Wuhan residents will be tested for Covid-19 within 10 days.
  • May 15 : 3 million residents tested
Not that difficult to execute (for some country), isn't it ?

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Last edited:

supercat

Major
China Speed !
  • May 9 : 89 year old tested positive for Covid-19 in Wuhan, ending 35 days of no new cases.
  • May 10 : 5 more tested positive. All linked to the 89 year old tested positive a day earlier.
  • May 12 : China announced all 11 million Wuhan residents will be tested for Covid-19 within 10 days.
  • May 15 : 3 million residents tested
Not that difficult to execute (for some country), isn't it ?

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The results of such testing will offer invaluable data, insight, and research opportunities for the whole world in the fight against COVID-19.

It's one thing to develop a vaccine. It's entirely a different thing to convince people to get vaccinated.
Trump’s WARP SPEED vaccine czar oversaw an infamously BOTCHED vaccination. Wonder why a THIRD of Americans want to dodge this one?
...

GlaxoSmithKline vaccine chairman Moncef Slaoui was appointed by Trump on Thursday to run the task force his administration is calling Operation Warp Speed. Slaoui spent 30 years with GSK, which is one of dozens of pharmaceutical companies working on a vaccine; he’s also earned close to half a million dollars as a director of Moderna, currently tapped as one of the leading candidates in the vaccine race. Watchdog groups like Public Citizen have already raised alarms about his conflicts of interest, but that’s the least of his problems.

As chief of vaccines at GSK, Slaoui oversaw the development of the disastrous Pandemrix vaccine for swine flu, a shot that was rushed to market without proper testing in the midst of a 2009 epidemic, during which public health officials were shrieking about enormous death tolls that never materialized, with some claiming the death toll would rival the 1918 influenza pandemic (sound familiar?).

The result of the hasty approval process was an unsafe, ineffective shot that left over a thousand recipients permanently brain-damaged, some 80 percent of them children. Forty percent of NHS staffers were vaccinated under false pretenses, told the shot was safe and effective. The UK government was forced to pay out millions of pounds in compensation, as GSK had refused to supply the drug to governments until it was indemnified against lawsuits.
According to the same article, Moderna, which has Trump's vaccine czar Moncef Slaoui as its director too, is also developing a COVID-19 vaccine that is potentially problematic:
Of course, GSK is hardly the only drug company cutting corners. Moderna, the favorite to “win” Operation Warp Speed, has never brought a vaccine to market before, and the mRNA vaccine it is developing is a type that’s never been approved for use in humans. Worse, the company is actually skipping animal trials completely, with its chief medical officer Tal Zaks
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that he didn’t think the intermediate step – carried out to avoid subjecting humans to unnecessary harm – was necessary.
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Situation in the U.S. on May 15:
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Situation in China on May 15, excluding HK, Macau, and TW:
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