Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
It's been hotly debated there before and when it comes down to it, whether China can truly become a high income country, the first of its kind in the world with such a massive and diverse (from urban businessmen to villagers who barely use electricity) population, is something we will have to wait and see.
What is there to debate? China spent the last forty years delivering the fastest economic growth in history. China works miracles and is going to keep working miracles. Those "debating" this like our Jura would use their time better thinking how they can retain some degree of independence in a world where China's economy is larger than North America and Europe's combined.
 
That's a general economic discussion for the Chinese economics thread; I thought you said that the coronavirus would cause this, which would make it appropriate to discuss here. ...
OK I should've made the virus connection 16 minutes ago,
it's

Jan 21, 2020,11:55am EST
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but doubling won't happen for some time (because of the virus this year), while China would need to something like triple
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
OK I should've made the virus connection 16 minutes ago,
it's

Jan 21, 2020,11:55am EST
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but doubling won't happen for some time (because of the virus this year), while China would need to something like triple
I don't understand. Why does it need to triple? How long does it have to triple? I think this is better for Chinese economics forum.
What is there to debate? China spent the last forty years delivering the fastest economic growth in history. China works miracles and is going to keep working miracles. Those "debating" this like our Jura would use their time better thinking how they can retain some degree of independence in a world where China's economy is larger than North America and Europe's combined.
Calm down; you can't end all discussions with "China works miracles; there's nothing to discuss." China's endgame can be very different from what a traditional Western perspective of success is. Although China is doing a fantastic job growing its economy, technology, labor conditions, etc... all working towards escaping the middle income trap, there is also the reality that China has 4x the number of people than the US and the same amount of land. With a natural resources to people ratio like that, can the average Chinese citizen become rich on a per capita basis? Or will China simply be a massive collective power with the average income remaining in the middle bracket of the world? There's no easy answer to that and we will have to see.
 
I don't understand. Why does it need to triple? How long does it have to triple? ...
thought it was obvious I've been talking middle income trap, so (it's from
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20115,621
and the plan was to double it this year, which isn't going to happen due to the virus, so 29 minutes ago I offhandedly said "something like triple" [for the Chinese GDP per capita to get out of middle income trap zone]

now excuse me, I go to bed LOL
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
With a natural resources to people ratio like that, can the average Chinese citizen become rich on a per capita basis?
The way I see it, there are two kinds of economies in the world: the extraction economy that makes its living out of its natural resource endowment. The Gulf petro-monarchies are the purest example of this kind of economy. In this case, the fewer people, the better since adding more people doesn't add to the resource pool.
The second kind of economy is the technological economy that makes its living out of innovating and developing advanced technology. Japan and South Korea are archetypal examples of this type of economy. Resources permitting, the more people this type of economy has, the wealthier it becomes since its primary resource is educated, productive people.
Of course, every economy is a mix of the two.
Japan is an instructive case because it's far more resource-constrained than China yet still became an advanced economy. It's PPP adjusted per capita GDP is around $45,500, which is right around the OECD average and compares favourably to the US's $65,000. There's no reason to believe China can't get from its current 33% of US per capita GDP (PPP adjusted) to 70% like Japan.
The great thing about China being a technological economy is that over the long term the biggest and strongest of these economies define what counts as a resource. Whale fat and horses were once the commodities in what passed for the world economy. What are those things worth now? In the decades to come, China's advancements in technologies like electric transportation and advanced nuclear power and renewables will do the same to oil, to take one example.
To conclude, I don't think every Chinese citizen will have a McMansion with a Garage Mahal, but he'll live a first-world life surrounded by the most advanced technology in the world. And China itself will be far, far more powerful than America.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
OK I should've made the virus connection 16 minutes ago,
it's

Jan 21, 2020,11:55am EST
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but doubling won't happen for some time (because of the virus this year), while China would need to something like triple

High income country threshold is $12000/yr China is closre to that as 2019 GDP/capita is $10000 On the cost it is more like $20,000. There are 2 China actually coastal china and interior China
Coastal China already high income countries and there are at least 200 to 200 million people in coastal China
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The way I see it, there are two kinds of economies in the world: the extraction economy that makes its living out of its natural resource endowment. The Gulf petro-monarchies are the purest example of this kind of economy. In this case, the fewer people, the better since adding more people doesn't add to the resource pool.
The second kind of economy is the technological economy that makes its living out of innovating and developing advanced technology. Japan and South Korea are archetypal examples of this type of economy. Resources permitting, the more people this type of economy has, the wealthier it becomes since its primary resource is educated, productive people.
Of course, every economy is a mix of the two.
Japan is an instructive case because it's far more resource-constrained than China yet still became an advanced economy. It's PPP adjusted per capita GDP is around $45,500, which is right around the OECD average and compares favourably to the US's $65,000. There's no reason to believe China can't get from its current 33% of US per capita GDP (PPP adjusted) to 70% like Japan.
The great thing about China being a technological economy is that over the long term the biggest and strongest of these economies define what counts as a resource. Whale fat and horses were once the commodities in what passed for the world economy. What are those things worth now? In the decades to come, China's advancements in technologies like electric transportation and advanced nuclear power and renewables will do the same to oil, to take one example.
To conclude, I don't think every Chinese citizen will have a McMansion with a Garage Mahal, but he'll live a first-world life surrounded by the most advanced technology in the world. And China itself will be far, far more powerful than America.
Japan might have a high per capita GDP with low natural resources but its economy has massive problems and China will definitely not be mimicking that route. I understand that China doesn't make money by selling natural resources but I brought it up for a different reason. How much living space is there? If you earn a lot of money but that money still only affords you a 700 sq ft apt in the city, is that rich? If you earn a lot of money but eating a steak is still a special treat where the whole family shares 1 rib-eye because it's so expensive, is that considered rich? That's the Japanese type of "high income."

In the end, I agree with you that China can get most people to live in modern metropolises with cutting edge technology and that alone would make China immensely powerful, but the middle income trap deals with how personally rich those people are as they are surrounded by collective wealth.
 

PiSigma

"the engineer"
Is the US really worse off than china? I think that's hard to say. While I hope China gets back on her feet soon, it's too early to say that's the case. Any thoughts on the articles below?



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You are quoting a gordon watts article? That guy is basically a gordon Chang wannabe. Pretty much every he wrote is lies, exaggeration, or both. Basically he make up something in his head, write an article based on an anonymous source who is really himself, kinda like Trump economic advisor Navarro, and then publish it on atimes which is run by that Goldman guy.
 
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