Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
begs the question when will US be transparent and credibly investigate possible US origin for this virus and publicly publish those findings. Why did WH classify deliberation on CoronaVirus rendering it top secret topic?

I think the US will continue to hide their HUGE numbers for as long as possible. They will not admit it or disclose it.

This is the reason they have issued a nationwide ban on COVID-19 records and testing from a week and a half ago. It's the only reason for doing such a thing!

I'm more interested in what can be proven about man-made virus. Who and why... I guess why is answered by who. Not ruling anyone or anything out. I personally don't think this is restricted to a country or government. I feel most governments are not in on it especially at the civilian and lower levels. As usual the common people around the world suffer.
 
I think the US will continue to hide their HUGE numbers for as long as possible. They will not admit it or disclose it.

This is the reason they have issued a nationwide ban on COVID-19 records and testing from a week and a half ago. It's the only reason for doing such a thing!

I'm more interested in what can be proven about man-made virus. Who and why... I guess why is answered by who. Not ruling anyone or anything out. I personally don't think this is restricted to a country or government. I feel most governments are not in on it especially at the civilian and lower levels. As usual the common people around the world suffer.

Sorry not following why you say hide their HUGE number. This is no secret that you cannot or unable to find the HUGE number if you are not looking for it. On the other hand, HHS staffers indicated the the reason is "it had to do with China."

See
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The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavi...


A fifth source familiar with the meetings said HHS staffers often weren’t informed about coronavirus developments because they didn’t have adequate clearance. He said he was told that the matters were classified “because it had to do with China.”
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Actually, many pages back, many have already raised the point that it seems very likely some variant of the virus has been circulating. There is some preliminary evidence against this (lack of antibodies in some suspected mild cases), but the breadth of the infection still begs investigation.

Personally, I don’t think the lack of testing in the US is necessarily due to specific government direction, but rather the inefficient health system that exists in the US and lack of coordination at the federal level.
Just today I saw some local WNY news and they were talking how state governor says one thing and White House another. Since healthcare is delivered at a private level, there is a lot less information sharing and less motivation to do the extra work of research and tracing.
 
Personally, I don’t think the lack of testing in the US is necessarily due to specific government direction, but rather the inefficient health system that exists in the US and lack of coordination at the federal level.

No one is arguing if there was any specific government direction. However, that is effectively the case since until a few days ago since the CDC was the only agency allowed to diagnose for this virus. Even today, the private sector can only do presumptive positive testing to be verified by CDC.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I haven't been reading the twenty or so posts added here every day but has anyone else arrived at the conclusion that COVID-19 has been spreading at least in the US or wherever (including China or any country) since early or mid 2019?

Let's examine some facts:

1. The seafood wetmarket in Wuhan that also does sell snake and pangolin (live) has not yet detected COVID-19 in any of the animals after Wuhan's shutdown. Sure it could have been covered up (although why? especially when CCP itself has not even argued the possibility of this being the cause) or the infected animal/s processed and purchased already. But as far as I'm aware, all academic papers or post COVID research has shown that snakes and pangolins are not yet naturally carrying or accepting COVID-19 from bats or any other animal! and they are not only not carriers, there's also no way to show they can even spread it to humans even if they could carry COVID-19, which they can't. So yeah the whole markets theory is scientifically proven false.

2. The US reported abnormally high cold and flu infection cases in 2019 and abnormally high deaths attributed to flu and flu caused diseases like pneumonia.

3. The US supplied what the US itself described as faulty test kits and later on covered up all testing results along with recorded numbers of infections. Why would they do this? An official nation wide cover up to make the whole situation inside the US more opaque than the worst of CCP days.

4. Jack Ma, under instruction from CCP perhaps, is donating free of charge thousands of test kits (in just one first offer wave) to the US, probably in the hopes they will test and see their ridiculously high infection numbers for themselves.

5. US doctors have spoken up on social medias claiming their suspicions of early COVID-19 in USA since many patients had X-ray scans that read like what COVID-19 does to one's lungs and lab tests of throat swabs and other indicators returned negative for all known viral flu causes.

View attachment 58375

So all these thousands upon thousands of extra abnormal "flu" infections and deaths from something that returns negative for flu yet exhibits similar lung X-rays as COVID-19... hmmmmmm

6. Chinese diplomat tweets imploring the US to be transparent about how many infections they have and the results of testing for COVID-19 along with more transparency of Trump meetings ... more of a propaganda move to pull down the false facade of US freedom and transparency. There isn't freedom and it isn't any more transparent! It's all a matter of circumstance rather than philosophy now! The purpose of this move is to show the US that the CCP knows a bit more about the nature of this virus than they have offered and perhaps knows the extent of US involvement or at least US spread before Wuhan Dec 2019 was a thing.

What do you get when you put all the facts of the puzzle together? There is more to this COVID-19 story than a simple (scientifically iffy) suggestion that a country with no tradition of consuming bats, caught COVID-19 from a bat soup that was consumed in Palau Malaysia... also no cases in countries that actually consume bats in higher numbers. That's of course not to say Chinese people don't have a WIDE meat menu and most probably shouldn't keep such a wide meat menu especially given how interconnected people are these days and the high density cities we have too. At least without very costly and a well maintained regulatory infrastructure in place along with proper enforcement and checks. This is unlikely for where China is today, so maybe keeping the crazy range of meats off markets should be done regardless. SARS and Ebola should be enough lesson for the entire world especially high density countries with relatively lax meat supply chain infrastructure and laws. India doesn't have this stuff because they don't have a wide meat menu.

I think there's a chance the US leadership detected COVID-19 in continental USA well before December 2019 and continue to keep it hushed which explains points 2 to 6. They just didn't have quite as high an infection rate due to warmer weather before December in Wuhan and never had Wuhan's density or travel movement. It could have spread from China earlier, it could have spread from country X. This has nothing to do with where it originated despite some evidence it was in the US before December 2019.

The problem with this theory is that if COVID-19 was circulating in the US in 2019, then why are people still getting infected? Remember flu season starts around November. Typical flu antibodies last 6 months, and it's reasonable to think COVID-19 antibodies would also last 6 months. The US population would still be well within the antibody period!

Even if we assume COVID-19 antibodies are extremely short-lived, why didn't the US experience massive infections and deaths in 2019?
 
why didn't the US experience massive infections and deaths in 2019?

How do you know that US didn't experience massive flu related death in 2019? For reference, US experienced estimated 45 million instances and 61000 flu-related death in 2018. We know of 50 COVID-19 death so far and such numbers can easily be buried in the statistics if not monitored and traced. Not a few of these were recently diagnose after patient was dead or near death when testing started

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would you explain the cartoon? I traced the story to
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where it goes like this:

one month ago
ETDkmo1UcAAG47J


now [what you posted Yesterday at 10:07 PM]

(asking because I don't know the Chinese language)
 
The curves are only as good as the data, which is the number of people tested.

It took Hubei 12 days after its lockdown, before the number of new infections peaked , so I think we can expect something similar.

That would be consistent with:
1. a typical 5day incubation period (although some are longer)
2. a delay in testing
3. the rate of infection peaking, but working with a larger infected base.

We're only in Day 8 after the Italy lockdown, so yeah, 5000 new confirmed infections per day looks realistic.
all I can say at this point is I'm going to update at around 7 pm today

stay tuned LOL
 
in the meantime
As coronavirus epidemic eases in China, life is slowly returning to normal
  • Workers are gradually getting back to their jobs, stranded Hubei residents are going home and at last there is some relief for medical staff on the front line
  • While other countries battle the pandemic, there are signs in mainland China that the worst is over
so follow the link
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if interested, where I noticed they're behind with the number of Polish cases (104 as of this morning) and Czech (214), just saying
 
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