Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[plawolf]

Good ideal, but not sure it will work in practice. Don't forget, the people that take the exception, and confront you for wearing your mask, is likely to be:
1/ drunken bum. 2/ two-times looses. 3/ plain redneck racists.

None of them is likely to take the time to listen to your rationale for their "education" for wearing your mask.

Even if they took the time to be "educated". They won't have the brain capacity to assimilate and analysis the information you've provided for free!

So they will react with the only way they know how, by lashing out at you. Be on your guards!

Fair points, and I never for a second believe this will work in every situation.

But in my view, for the vast majority of racist events, there is at a minimum an escalation curve.

That curve can be very short, but it is extremely rare that a racist thug will launch into physical assault from the get-go.

In my belief, the overwhelmingly majority of your COVID19 street thug level racist are cowards and opportunists at their core. Hence why they are only popping out of the woodworks now instead of being in prison from past racist offences.

The escalation curve is them gauging both the public reaction of bystanders as well as their intended victim. If either reacts more strongly in opposition to their racist antics than they are prepared for, they can beat a hasty retreat without much if any risk of legal or physical repercussions because they started small.

My strategy is to take advantage of both the escalation curve as well as the psychology of the racists to stop them in their tracks.

I should have stressed more in my last post that it is of paramount importance to keep your rebuttals short and to the point. I would not say more than ‘this mask is for your benefit as much as mine, or do you want me to take if off and cough in your face?’

In my expectation, the assertive standing your ground combined with the thinly veiled personal threat to the racist thugs of them catching the virus is enough to dissuade the overwhelming majority to either beating a hasty retreat or at a minimum stop them on their escalation curve as they will now be much more hesitant to turn the confrontation physical. In addition, by pointing out the broader social benefits of you wearing a mask, you are much more likely to get support from bystanders, which will further demoralise the racist thugs.

It won’t work in every situation, but it will cost you nothing to try.

 

[Dolcevita]

Careful here, my friend, or someone might acccused you of:
1/ CCP apologies.
2/ You been wearing that tin foil for a hat for too long! Lol

or Wumao or Communist Conspiracy theorist. Typical response from democratic MSM and some among us here also.
Regardless, VILE and LIES needs to be challenged.

 

[Air Force Brat]

It is the same like for normal, untreated (bacterial) pneumonia.

That damage the lung as well.

Exactly, and the disease process kills or damages cell tissue, typically in the lower lobes where fluid pools. Its shocking to see in the autopsy process, dead blackened tissue... fortunately this damage usually occurs from the bottom up, leaving the healthy tissue in the top functional.

I saw this first hand when we lost several calves in our beef cattle herd, we called our vet to come out and do an autopsy, it was very shocking to see. He pointed out the dead blackened tissues, with the observation that it was the same in human pneumonia.. only the bright pink tissues remained functional, all the dead tissue would just continue to cause respiratory issues.

I would guess that in a healthy adult, recovery from pneumonia takes six months or so, depending on your general health at the time of infection and how much damage the pneumonia caused during that infection.

 

[AndrewS]

It is not possible to lift the restrictions.

The outside of China infections was caused by few dozens virus carriers. - at least the last calculation was this.

Means it is impossible to get rid of .

In those countries, you still had large crowds and gatherings, where COVID-19 can spread like crazy.
But if large groups are avoided, it is still possible to keep an outbreak small and localised.
That is what South Korea has been demonstrating for the past 2 months.

Nice data table about chances and outcomes :

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Looks like 63% chance of dead if 24 min/ breath at the time of admission , and from 33 person only one survived the mechanical ventilation .

Very slim chance to survive with coronary heart disease.

So the available mechanical ventilation machines won't help the recovery and the survival.

Looks like the survival chance not related to the available machines, but rather than to the available medical staff .



By the world bank, in China the number of doctors is 2.8/1000 residents, nurses 2.3/1000 residents.

Same number is 4.1 /5.9 for Italy, and USA 2.6 / 8.6, Russia 4/8.6 .


So there are 5.1/1000 medical workers in China, 10/1000 in Italy, and 11.2 in USA and 12.6 in Russia.

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I think we need to be careful about the study here.

It only covers patients up to January 31st.
That was when testing was still limited, and only the most severe cases got tested and admitted to hospital.
So there were undoubtedly many who died due to lack of ventilators, but couldn't get tested and admitted.

Later studies on Wuhan indicate a lower fatality rate (22%-62%) for critically ill patients. Source below.
Presumably all of those patients required a ventilator.

for those who become critically ill, there is currently a wide mortality range, from 22% to 62% in the early Hubei Province case series

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So in terms of the death rate from COVID-19, I still think the number of ventilators for intensive care beds is the most relevant metric.

If you think about it, you can have an unlimited number of medical personnel. They can handle as many mild and medium cases as needed. But those people don't die.
And for critical cases, I'm assuming you need a ventilator.

 

[Air Force Brat]

It is not possible to lift the restrictions.

The outside of China infections was caused by few dozens virus carriers. - at least the last calculation was this.

Means it is impossible to get rid of .


Nice data table about chances and outcomes :

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Looks like 63% chance of dead if 24 min/ breath at the time of admission , and from 33 person only one survived the mechanical ventilation .

Very slim chance to survive with coronary heart disease.

So the available mechanical ventilation machines won't help the recovery and the survival.

Looks like the survival chance not related to the available machines, but rather than to the available medical staff .



By the world bank, in China the number of doctors is 2.8/1000 residents, nurses 2.3/1000 residents.

Same number is 4.1 /5.9 for Italy, and USA 2.6 / 8.6, Russia 4/8.6 .


So there are 5.1/1000 medical workers in China, 10/1000 in Italy, and 11.2 in USA and 12.6 in Russia.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

this study is confined to acute respiratory cases presenting and admitted to the intensive care units of one of two hospitals. Results are highly driven by acute underlying health conditions, heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, and by treatment provided by the hospital.....

Your observations are skewed by your lack of perspective, furthermore these results are "worst case" scenarios of "worst case" patients, several of whom were placed on ventilators, only one of whom survived the vent....

These results were from the initial infection site, and related that the coronavirus was traced back to the Wuhan wet meat market...

So this is a very good study, with lots of good information, but you have failed in your observations to point out the dire presentation of each of these patients going into intensive care in an overwhelmed medical system.

Furthermore, this was the first presentation of the coronavirus with no previous information about how to best treat these patients, and as such you must take into account that the learning curve was very steep, with the dissemination of information from these two hospitals, a lot more is now known about how to achieve the best outcomes.

as well this is NOT some clinical study, it is observations of widely divergent patients and patient care......

 

[Air Force Brat]

If the "Honey Badger" is happy, then you're happy!

I wouldn't go that far friend, I have several toys that the "Honey Badger" sees no need of?? so what we can say for certain, is that if indeed the "Honey Badger" is unhappy, then the Air Force Brat is also "miserable", from the old "misery loves company" school of thought, to which the "Honey Badger" fully ascribes and gives considerable instruction.....

but to concede, yes if she is indeed happy, its a least likely that the "Air Force Brat" has a high probability of being able to continue those activities which bring me happiness. Keep in mind however that sometimes making me miserable does indeed bring her considerable joy??

Some of you guys with wives, steady girlfriends?? know what I mean

 

[Air Force Brat]

In those countries, you still had large crowds and gatherings, where COVID-19 can spread like crazy.
But if large groups are avoided, it is still possible to keep an outbreak small and localised.
That is what South Korea has been demonstrating for the past 2 months.




I think we need to be careful about the study here.

It only covers patients up to January 31st.
That was when testing was still limited, and only the most severe cases got tested and admitted to hospital.
So there were undoubtedly many who died due to lack of ventilators, but couldn't get tested and admitted.

Later studies on Wuhan indicate a lower fatality rate (22%-62%) for critically ill patients. Source below.
Presumably all of those patients required a ventilator.



So in terms of the death rate from COVID-19, I still think the number of ventilators for intensive care beds is the most relevant metric.

If you think about it, you can have an unlimited number of medical personnel. They can handle as many mild and medium cases as needed. But those people don't die.
And for critical cases, I'm assuming you need a ventilator.

so what we are missing here Andy is that to be placed on a vent, you need to be "damn near dead", in fact in that early paper based out to the two hospitals in Wuhan, of the 33 patients placed on a vent, only one survived?

so those results do NOT apply to the general population, and they only apply to a small percentage of patients presenting with Covid-19, they ONLY apply to the most critically ill patients. Out of over 800 critically ill patients, only 33 of those were eventually placed on vents, as their condition dropped into the basement.

so NO, all of those patients did not need a ventilator, or if they did a vent was not available, (also possible, maybe even likely)??

what is NOT mentioned? is that this was the world initial exposure to covid-19, and the medical response is at first a lot of questions and disbelief in "what are we seeing, what's going on here"? and this occurs in almost every medical facility on the initial presentation.

the rest of the world NOW has the benefit of all the information on how to recognize and treat patients presenting with corona virus symptoms.... so if you know what you are dealing with? or might be dealing with? your response and treatment WILL be much more successful....

 

[Gatekeeper]

Breaking news, Spain join Italy to become the second country in Europe to lockdown its country.

Coronavirus news – live: Spain joins Italy in nationwide lockdown as cases soar and WHO criticises UK's 'herd immunity' plan

rest of the news:

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Meanwhile, Apple is to close its stores outside China, where as within China, Apple to re-open stores!

 

[Gatekeeper]

Fair points, and I never for a second believe this will work in every situation.

But in my view, for the vast majority of racist events, there is at a minimum an escalation curve.

That curve can be very short, but it is extremely rare that a racist thug will launch into physical assault from the get-go.

In my belief, the overwhelmingly majority of your COVID19 street thug level racist are cowards and opportunists at their core. Hence why they are only popping out of the woodworks now instead of being in prison from past racist offences.

The escalation curve is them gauging both the public reaction of bystanders as well as their intended victim. If either reacts more strongly in opposition to their racist antics than they are prepared for, they can beat a hasty retreat without much if any risk of legal or physical repercussions because they started small.

My strategy is to take advantage of both the escalation curve as well as the psychology of the racists to stop them in their tracks.

I should have stressed more in my last post that it is of paramount importance to keep your rebuttals short and to the point. I would not say more than ‘this mask is for your benefit as much as mine, or do you want me to take if off and cough in your face?’

In my expectation, the assertive standing your ground combined with the thinly veiled personal threat to the racist thugs of them catching the virus is enough to dissuade the overwhelming majority to either beating a hasty retreat or at a minimum stop them on their escalation curve as they will now be much more hesitant to turn the confrontation physical. In addition, by pointing out the broader social benefits of you wearing a mask, you are much more likely to get support from bystanders, which will further demoralise the racist thugs.

It won’t work in every situation, but it will cost you nothing to try.

Not disagreeing with you here, Wolf. I'm sure you are right regarding tolerance curvres. It just that I'll err on the side of caution. As I'm an old-timer. Have seen everything, been everywhere, done everything, and got the proverbial Tee-shirt!

And all I'm saying is that these loosers, drunks, rednecks, etc have a low tolerance level. After all, they don't have a lot to loose in the first place!

 

[Gatekeeper]

or Wumao or Communist Conspiracy theorist. Typical response from democratic MSM and some among us here also.
Regardless, VILE and LIES needs to be challenged.

God, I forgot the 五毛 wumao! Must be getting old, as memory is getting worse! Lol