Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
At the present time, approximately 28 million Americans (9% of the population) do not have health insurance, mostly because they cannot afford it. But if those 28 million Americans don't have access to health care, they won't visit the doctor or seek medical treatment.

From a practical point of view, those uninsured will end up spreading COVID-19 to the rest of the population.
So it makes sense that SOMEONE has to pay for basic health care for the poorest 9%.
Otherwise the other 91% of the population will suffer as well.

There are studies which show that universal health coverage (which has to involve subsidies to the poorest), results in a healthier population OVERALL.

The original goal of Obamacare was that the poorest would barely have to pay anything.
It would be along the lines of the UK or Germany for example, where the unemployed and low income earners barely pay anything, but still have access to basic healthcare.

They would be subsidised by the middle and higher income earners.
But then the Republicans gutted Obamacare so this didn't happen.

From a moral and philosophical point of view, a nation which see sees itself as a single people, shouldn't begrudge basic health care for the poorest sections of its fellow citizens.

After all, who knows if you will lose your own job and then need basic health care provided by the government?

And looking forward to the future after COVID-19 has passed, a rational US would enact universal health care for the entire population, and ensure the poorest only pay minimally. We're talking like a $5 copayment for each visit to a family doctor.

But Republican ideology is against government intervention and subsidies to the poorest.
Plus the existing entrenched healthcare lobby is happy with the situation as it is.

Remember, they did manage to gut Obamacare.

I DID lose my job Andrew! and NO I did NOT receive GOVT healthcare, I was unemployed for nearly 2 years, in fact Obamacare individual mandate fined me a couple of thousand bucks for NOT having health insurance,,, I can assure you I was very poor at that time with NO money in savings, and yes it did hurt me, my wife, and our children....

I used 763 US dollars a month to pay my Cobra health ins for the first 18 months until that ran out and my previous employer cancelled my coverage, then I was fined for each month thereafter until I found a job with healthcare coverage....

So that nonsense about the government providing basic healthcare is NOT true, doesn't happen, didn't happen.....

end off topic: anyway, this is the coronavirus, no unsubstantiated rumours thread, so back on topic

Hospitals in the US do not turn away patients, they treat them, they have for a very long time, the money they don't collect from those patients is "charged back" to the patients, who have health care and do pay... so we all pay higher prices for those who are treated without medical coverage.

So NO ONE who "presents" at a hospital with coronavirus symptoms will be turned away, they will be placed in isolation and treated....

Now the govt is making a valiant effort to make sure people are cared for and provided the outstanding medical care that so many continue to take for granted.
 
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138871147_15840223369961n.jpg

Medical workers pose for photos after seeing cured patients off at the Wuchang temporary hospital in Wuhan, central China's Hubei Province, March 10, 2020. (Xinhua/Xiao Yijiu)
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
In a show of generosity China send 31 ton of medical supply to Italy
China on Thursday sent the first charter flight with nine medical experts and 31 tons of medical materials, including ICU ward equipment, medical protective equipment, and antiviral agents, to Rome to help
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in the
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
COVID19 is going to be hell for undeveloped countries and will be a struggle for western nations. Western nations will experience greater mortality rates and wider spread due to a combination of reluctance to wear face masks and inability for government to make drastic and disruptive changes unlike an authoritarian one. Already NSW (Australia's most populous state) has health officials suggesting medical workers prepare for roughly 80,000 infected in a state with a total live in population of roughly 8 million people. They are suggesting the possibility of 8,000 deaths with the implied cause of higher than recorded rate due to a total inability of the public health sector in dealing with such a pandemic.

Then the blame will shift back on China as if it is responsible for the whole thing and responsible for not just CCP's early attempts at cover ups and complacency in acting, but also every other government's failures. This will be on a formal and official level where the situation on the ground with average citizens being far more critical on China, CCP, and Chinese people regardless of guilt. The first round will finish up with the southern hemisphere as the climate shifts back to warmer weather in about 6 months time. By then, hopefully proper treatments are up and running.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
In a show of generosity China send 31 ton of medical supply to Italy
China on Thursday sent the first charter flight with nine medical experts and 31 tons of medical materials, including ICU ward equipment, medical protective equipment, and antiviral agents, to Rome to help
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View attachment 58286

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Those boxes are from Medicom, a Canadian company.

Does the PRC government pay the company market value for the supply? Were they meant for domestic supply or export? (the picture quality is not clear enough to see if there are Chinese characters)
I know in early days, many government officials were reaching out to source anything they could get.

Just kind of interesting to see because it is basically impossible to get medical grade masks right now. However, the more recent posts mention that the export restrictions are being lifted. If there are boxes branded for international companies, it would imply that this is the case, but still extremely difficult to get.
 
Because, you wanted to know the way how did I classify the Europeans.

Next time, politely put, PLEASE don't ask questions if you think you cannot handle the answer.
OK time to report you for trolling by (I may later edit it in Report Window to add post numbers)
first posting an insult to a group of people and once called out, telling me this (how could the account
dratsabknihcllik
know what I think)
 

dratsabknihcllik

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's simple. I have spent almost 8 years in Europe and have plenty of friends and acquaintances. I have my fair share of experience of meeting sophisticated Brits, workaholic Germans and Nordics, and loads of eastern Europeans
It all boils down to personal experience.
To the respected moderators: apologies if I have offended anyone.


You have, and you've been warned about insulting people and flame baiting, you ought to apologize to Mr. Jura.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
It could be from Chinese export item diverted to Italy Or it could be from China branch of Medicom
Anyway US exhumed victim of Flu and found out it was Corona virus that kill them. So the Japanese suspect of the virus originated in US is not hoax after all Via Emperor

So the US CDC has finally confirmed what we have suspected all along. Some of the so-called flu death in America had in fact been found to be caused by coronavirus posthumously. Just that they didn't know before because they were never tested. That fits in with previous reports in Japan that a Japanese contracted coronavirus in Hawaii even before the Wuhan outbreak and the Italians discovered that a different strain of the virus had already been circulating in Italy before the arrival of Chinese patients.

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12 hr 54 min ago
CDC director says some coronavirus-related deaths have been found posthumously

During the House Oversight Committee discussion on the novel coronavirus response, the director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said some deaths from coronavirus have been discovered posthumously.

Rep. Harley Rouda asked CDC director Dr. Robert Redfield if it’s possible that some flu patients may have been misdiagnosed and actually had coronavirus.

"The standard practice is the first thing you do is test for influenza, so if they had influenza they would be positive," Redfield said.

Rouda then asked Redfield if they are doing posthumous testing.

Redfield said there has been "a surveillance system of deaths from pneumonia, that the CDC has; it’s not in every city, every state, every hospital.”

Rouda followed up and asked, “So we could have some people in the United States dying for what appears to be influenza when in fact it could be the coronavirus?”

The doctor replied that “some cases have actually been diagnosed that way in the United States today.”
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
COVID19 is going to be hell for undeveloped countries and will be a struggle for western nations. Western nations will experience greater mortality rates and wider spread due to a combination of reluctance to wear face masks and inability for government to make drastic and disruptive changes unlike an authoritarian one. Already NSW (Australia's most populous state) has health officials suggesting medical workers prepare for roughly 80,000 infected in a state with a total live in population of roughly 8 million people. They are suggesting the possibility of 8,000 deaths with the implied cause of higher than recorded rate due to a total inability of the public health sector in dealing with such a pandemic.

Then the blame will shift back on China as if it is responsible for the whole thing and responsible for not just CCP's early attempts at cover ups and complacency in acting, but also every other government's failures. This will be on a formal and official level where the situation on the ground with average citizens being far more critical on China, CCP, and Chinese people regardless of guilt. The first round will finish up with the southern hemisphere as the climate shifts back to warmer weather in about 6 months time. By then, hopefully proper treatments are up and running.

*Sign* Let's go back a little bit and see how we got here. Earlier you were suggesting
A better measure would be the "daily death" / "daily cured" as these 2 variables add up directly to the cumulative death and cumulative cured. I haven't checked but I suspect the rate of decrease of the daily critical cases is higher than that of the daily cured.

I pointed out there would be a time-induced distortion with your formula. You then suggested

The thing is the mortality rate is going to be "sum of daily death" / ("sum of daily death + daily cured") until when the epidemic ends with existing cases reduced to 0.

If conditions are relatively stabilized, the mortality rate is going to be close to current average daily death / ("average daily death + average daily cured")

Now please tell me if the 'current average daily death' in your formula current average daily death / ("average daily death + average daily cured") uses average daily death since the beginning of the outbreak til now, or average daily death in the last few days. If it is the former, explain how your second formula is different from your first formula (the one that uses sum of daily death). If it's the latter (which I assumed it to be since I assumed your second formula was different from your first formula), then there will be a time-induced distortion.

In any case I hope you can see how your original estimation method, which was "daily death" / "daily cured", would have the time lag related problem that I was trying to explain to you in the last few posts.
 
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