Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I work in semiconductor, mostly in laboratory and cleanroom environments.

My living situation also does not have shared air ventilation.

What do you mean standard lack of sewer traps? All plumbing fixtures are required to have traps. They're not expensive either, it's literally a U shaped pipe section.

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Thanks for engaging constructively. This is specifically in regards to China, though I don’t know if it’s also a problem in other developing countries. U-/P-traps are not common in China yet.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Thanks for engaging constructively. This is specifically in regards to China, though I don’t know if it’s also a problem in other developing countries. U-/P-traps are not common in China yet.
P traps are not some alien technology (seriously, it's a 180 tube union), and all I see are claims and a photo with neither date nor location tags. They cost 3 RMB in China.

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The cost of a P trap is a tiny fraction that of the house, or rent, or any possible cost associated with living inside a structure. You can also trivially add P traps as an individual to almost all plumbing fixtures such as sinks, or hire a plumber, also for a cost negligible compared to that of a house, to add one.

In addition, P traps are required by code in China according to national standard GB50015 in the article on water based traps (存水弯)

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当构造内无存水弯的卫生器具与生活污水管道或其 他可能产生有害气体的排水管道连接时,必须在排水口以 下设存水弯。存水弯的水封深度不得小于50mm。严禁采 用活动机械密封替代水封。

"When a structure contains sanitary fixtures or wastewater producing fixture that does not have an internal water based trap, and these fixtures are to be connected to a sewer containing hazardous gases, a water based trap must be installed. The water based trap's sealing depth must exceed 50 mm. It is prohibited to use mechanically actuated seals."

So I am very confused.

1. Water based traps are required by law.
2. Water based traps are trivially cheap to buy
3. Water based traps are made in China of domestic materials.
4. Water based traps are easy to install for individuals and quick/cheap to install for plumbers.
5. There is no evidence, other than an undated and unlocated photo, and an assertion, that water based traps are scarce in China.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
P traps are not some alien technology (seriously, it's a 180 tube union), and all I see are claims and a photo with neither date nor location tags. They cost 3 RMB in China.

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The cost of a P trap is a tiny fraction that of the house, or rent, or any possible cost associated with living inside a structure. You can also trivially add P traps as an individual to almost all plumbing fixtures such as sinks, or hire a plumber, also for a cost negligible compared to that of a house, to add one.

In addition, P traps are required by code in China according to national standard GB50015 in the article on water based traps (存水弯)

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"When a structure contains sanitary fixtures or wastewater producing fixture that does not have an internal water based trap, and these fixtures are to be connected to a sewer containing hazardous gases, a water based trap must be installed. The water based trap's sealing depth must exceed 50 mm. It is prohibited to use mechanically actuated seals."

So I am very confused.

1. Water based traps are required by law.
2. Water based traps are trivially cheap to buy
3. Water based traps are made in China of domestic materials.
4. Water based traps are easy to install for individuals and quick/cheap to install for plumbers.
5. There is no evidence, other than an undated and unlocated photo, and an assertion, that water based traps are scarce in China.
There are case studies. The second one was authored by Zhong Nanshan. The traps may have dried out in that case. Either way, implementation of standards is unlikely to be uniform despite the low nominal cost.
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are case studies. The second one was authored by Zhong Nanshan. In the first one, the traps may have dried out. Either way, implementation of standards is unlikely to be uniform despite the low nominal cost.
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It is the same article on different websites. There is no second study. Anyhow, they unequivocally note that the traps exist and were indeed in place, but postulate a reason as to why they did not seal properly.

There is a bathtub in the master bathroom of each apartment but not in the guest bathroom. In the master bathroom, U-traps act as water seals for the wash basin, floor drain, toilet, and bathtub. Water seals in U-traps are generally 75 mm in depth and are expected to dry out in 30 days or sooner in dry conditions if no water is added.

Each household decorated its own bathrooms, and variation in the connecting pipes and water seal traps may have led to different pressure losses for the gas escape flow in the drainage system.

In fact, the samples they take, are from the U traps. You can't take samples from a non-existent trap.

These positive samples were collected from frequently touched surfaces and the inner surface of the wash basin's U-trap,

Here's my hypothesis based on experience: in China, a significant fraction of people don't use their bathtubs! They use a standing shower instead. My cousin used his bathtub for storage. But if you actually use your bathtub (and all other wastewaster fixtures equipped with a trap), you'll be OK. Not everyone's traps were empty and not everyone got infected.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
It is the same article on different websites. There is no second study. Anyhow, they unequivocally note that the traps exist and were indeed in place, but postulate a reason as to why they did not seal properly.





In fact, the samples they take, are from the U traps. You can't take samples from a non-existent trap.



Here's my hypothesis based on experience: in China, a significant fraction of people don't use their bathtubs! They use a standing shower instead. My cousin used his bathtub for storage. But if you actually use your bathtub (and all other wastewaster fixtures equipped with a trap), you'll be OK. Not everyone's traps were empty and not everyone got infected.
Sorry, I updated the post. There is a new one from March 2022 by the Shenzhen CDC as well. The traps do seem more susceptible to drying out if people don’t use their bathtubs.
 

Han Patriot

Junior Member
Registered Member
I just checked and Phases 1 and 2 of the domestic Walvax mRNA were conducted in China. For Phase 3, most of the trial was conducted abroad because it was easier to get data there with higher community spread, but 2,000 people also received it in Yunnan and Guangxi because of the border problem. The government also allowed Phase 1 and 2 studies of the Pfizer vaccine to be conducted in China.
Are you sure? Can you post a link bro. I just know China government does not like Mrna due to the unknown risk. Fosun can legally produce the same friggin biontech vaccine in China under license fyi.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Are you sure? Can you post a link bro. I just know China government does not like Mrna due to the unknown risk. Fosun can legally produce the same friggin biontech vaccine in China under license fyi.
Chinese government isn't against mRNA in anyway. It is just being cautious. Many studies and applications are underway in China for mRNA technology.

However, first domestic mRNA vaccine has shown with side effect of high fever. It is even higher than Moderna. One of reasons why mRNA vaccines never got approved is due more and stronger side effects of mRNA vaccines and another reason is reason is relatively weak performance as a booster.

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