Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
Serious man, stop panicking. China is nearly back to prepandemic normal. People are not afraid at all after getting infected, it's seriously like flu, at least for omicron. My friggin driver was not vaccinated, had slight coughing but hell he says it is like Flu.
Never gave any indication that I was panicking; that is simply a conjured image in your head for not wanting to hear anything negative. There is nothing to fear about the virus in endemic COVID as long as simple and effective precautions are taken to avoid it, nothing remotely requiring total isolation. Mild symptoms from Omicron don't prove largely imperceptible damage wasn't done, but I doubt you have any familiarity with the relevant literature or desire to know about it. Plenty of people said that earlier this year in the rest of the world, only to be subsequently reinfected a number of times due to rapid mutation and the relatively weaker natural immunity generated by Omicron. Their health outcomes will eventually turn noticeably negative if they haven't already unless a better societal solution, such as a sterilizing vaccine, is widely deployed which does not rely so much on people's knowledge and self-discipline.
 

Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
This doesn't bode well for Jin's credibility, because Hong Kong's own study indicates that 3 doses of CoronaVac is as effective as 3 doses of mRNA vaccine.

Chinese CDC will release the data of cases once a month after Jan. 8. Hopefully, they will still release vaccination data daily.
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All variants in China right now are Omicron.
  • Since the beginning of December, nine subvariants of the virus circulating have been detected in China, all of which belong to the Omicron strain
  • Xu Wenbo, the director of the National Institute for Viral Disease Control and Prevention of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, said real-time epidemiological data show no trace of the Delta strain in the country, nor of a recombinant of the Delta and Omicron strains.
  • White lungs on X-ray is not a symptom of the original COVID-19 viral strain or of vaccinations
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It's not that simple. Conflicting studies exist.

See:

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(Singapore)

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(Hong Kong)

The first study indicates a 50% difference in favor of mRNA after 4 doses (though 3 dose mRNA = 4 dose inactivated virus). The second study indicates a ~10-15% difference in favor of mRNA after 3-4 doses. That difference is larger with less doses, which is also consistent with the study you linked, though that could be because of how recent the dose is, rather than how many there were.

I also don't like the propaganda being pushed by the West regarding how Chinese vaccines are "useless," but there is data suggesting less effectiveness, though the margin might be only ~10-15% judging by the Hong Kong study, which isn't a lot. The Singapore study, however, is more of a problem. With a fast moving and ever changing virus, and new vaccine boosters being pushed out regularly, it's not likely that we'll get enough data to say one way or another until the wave has already passed. This makes it easy for people to push any agenda they want.

In short, I'm cautiously optimistic about inactivated viruses, presuming they update them quickly with new strains. But mRNA technology also shouldn't be dismissed. Having access to both would be ideal, in case one technology does turn out to be better in the long run.
 

Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's not that simple. Conflicting studies exist.

See:

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(Singapore)

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(Hong Kong)

Both of these studies indicate a ~10-15% difference in favor of mRNA after 3-4 doses. That difference is larger with less doses, which is also consistent with the study you linked, though that could be because of how recent the dose is, rather than how many there were.

I also don't like the propaganda being pushed by the West regarding how Chinese vaccines are "useless," but there is data suggesting less effectiveness, though the margin is only ~10-15%, which isn't a lot. With a fast moving and ever changing virus, and new vaccine boosters being pushed out regularly, it's not likely that we'll get enough data to say one way or another until the wave has already passed. This makes it easy for people to push any agenda they want.

In short, I'm cautiously optimistic about inactivated viruses, presuming they update them quickly with new strains. But mRNA technology also shouldn't be dismissed. Having access to both would be ideal, in case one technology does turn out to be better in the long run.
Protein subunit vaccines are superior to inactivated while still being traditional technology. I had three doses of a protein vaccine and never been infected. My family haven't been infected either with the protein vaccine. China has approved several protein vaccines including RBD-Dimer (Zhifei Longcom) and S-Trimer (Clover). mRNA has more autoimmune effects and waning than protein vaccines, but is not a bad solution for those without a history of autoimmune/inflammatory conditions as then the risk of adverse effects is likely insignificant. Plus the damage in most cases of serious adverse effects like myocarditis even when hospitalized is not as permanent as feared and does recover over time, according to the latest studies. A little known fact is that ADHD is one of the most common yet hidden autoimmune conditions, and studies find a high percentage of ADHD sufferers, among people with other autoimmune conditions, in people with Long COVID as well as severe COVID. It's probably not a coincidence that young men are the demographic both most likely to have ADHD and most likely to have myocarditis.

The group reported finding certain antibodies in both vaccine-induced myocarditis patients and patients with severe COVID-19, which itself can cause myocarditis. The same antibodies, which interfere with normal inflammation control, also turned up in children who developed a rare, dangerous condition called multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C) after a bout of COVID-19. “
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In the US most children with MIS-C have been minority children, namely Black and Hispanic. Overall those minorities have been more susceptible to severe COVID, and this trend among darker-skinned minorities living at higher latitudes has also been found in the UK among South Asians and Blacks. One cause is they are also more likely to have autoimmune or otherwise immunity-harming conditions, such as diabetes and severe Vitamin D deficiency.
 

EtherealSmoke

New Member
Registered Member
The worst is already behind us. The provincial authorities in Sichuan are already estimating over 2/3rds of the population already infected.


I mean, if true, what an incredible, lightning-fast pivot by the government. They keep accelerating the reopening to widespread incredulity, and yet they're looking on track to stick the landing.

FlDEtV-agAEuHKn



FlDE3JHaAAAgDiq


Beijing and Guangzhou have already peaked and started to recover, with the rest of the top tier cities not far behind. I had some reservations on the speed of their reopening, but if they manage the next week or two without much incident... they've saved the Chinese economy crucial months of recovery time.

People can argue they were slow to reopen, but they've changed tack extremely quickly. China is back in business.

Anyone headed back to China once in-bound quarantine lifts on the 8th?
 

Han Patriot

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's not that simple. Conflicting studies exist.

See:

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(Singapore)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(Hong Kong)

The first study indicates a 50% difference in favor of mRNA after 4 doses (though 3 dose mRNA = 4 dose inactivated virus). The second study indicates a ~10-15% difference in favor of mRNA after 3-4 doses. That difference is larger with less doses, which is also consistent with the study you linked, though that could be because of how recent the dose is, rather than how many there were.

I also don't like the propaganda being pushed by the West regarding how Chinese vaccines are "useless," but there is data suggesting less effectiveness, though the margin might be only ~10-15% judging by the Hong Kong study, which isn't a lot. The Singapore study, however, is more of a problem. With a fast moving and ever changing virus, and new vaccine boosters being pushed out regularly, it's not likely that we'll get enough data to say one way or another until the wave has already passed. This makes it easy for people to push any agenda they want.

In short, I'm cautiously optimistic about inactivated viruses, presuming they update them quickly with new strains. But mRNA technology also shouldn't be dismissed. Having access to both would be ideal, in case one technology does turn out to be better in the long run.
I have a real case cancer case and Lund University proves Mrna mutates into Dna after 2 hours in liver cells. It's up to you to believe whatever you want. Mrna is banned in China, we have the same friggin technology as Pfizer, it was licensed to Fosun for gods sake. And the domestic mrna was not even allowed to be tested in China. I am 3 dose sinopharm and it works, no long covid shit like the rest of the world and i recovered in 3 days. I didn't see people queueing for oxygen tanks like India nor the emergency ward stuffed with patients, i can't say there are none in China but in Shanghai the most populous city, and most dense, i have not seen the mass panic like in India or US.

And you should calm your arse down. The Chinese government is not stupid, they analyzed the data from the March lockdown and came to a conclusion. Old and weak? Too bad, 8% growth is more important than them.
 
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Icmer

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have a real case cancer case and Lund University proves Mrna mutates into Dna after 2 hours in liver cells. It's up to you to believe whatever you want. Mrna is banned in China, we have the same friggin technology as Pfizer, it was licensed to Fosun for gods sake. And the domestic mrna was not even allowed to be tested in China. I am 3 dose sinopharm and it works, no long covid shit like the rest of the world and i recovered in 3 days. I didn't see people queueing for oxygen tanks like India nor the emergency ward stuffed with patients, i can't say there are none in China but in Shanghai the most populous city, and most dense, i have not seen the mass panic like in India or US.
I just checked and Phases 1 and 2 of the domestic Walvax mRNA were conducted in China. For Phase 3, most of the trial was conducted abroad because it was easier to get data there with higher community spread, but 2,000 people also received it in Yunnan and Guangxi because of the border problem. The government also allowed Phase 1 and 2 studies of the Pfizer vaccine to be conducted in China.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have a real case cancer case and Lund University proves Mrna mutates into Dna after 2 hours in liver cells. It's up to you to believe whatever you want. Mrna is banned in China, we have the same friggin technology as Pfizer, it was licensed to Fosun for gods sake. And the domestic mrna was not even allowed to be tested in China. I am 3 dose sinopharm and it works, no long covid shit like the rest of the world and i recovered in 3 days. I didn't see people queueing for oxygen tanks like India nor the emergency ward stuffed with patients, i can't say there are none in China but in Shanghai the most populous city, and most dense, i have not seen the mass panic like in India or US.

And you should calm your arse down. The Chinese government is not stupid, they analyzed the data from the March lockdown and came to a conclusion. Old and weak? Too bad, 8% growth is more important than them.
You're lucky man, among the vaccine that's available worldwide Sinopharm is the best, President Duterte is inoculated with this vaccine and is our first choice until politics intervened.:mad:
 

lube

Junior Member
Registered Member
The worst is already behind us. The provincial authorities in Sichuan are already estimating over 2/3rds of the population already infected.


I mean, if true, what an incredible, lightning-fast pivot by the government. They keep accelerating the reopening to widespread incredulity, and yet they're looking on track to stick the landing.

FlDEtV-agAEuHKn



FlDE3JHaAAAgDiq


Beijing and Guangzhou have already peaked and started to recover, with the rest of the top tier cities not far behind. I had some reservations on the speed of their reopening, but if they manage the next week or two without much incident... they've saved the Chinese economy crucial months of recovery time.

People can argue they were slow to reopen, but they've changed tack extremely quickly. China is back in business.

Anyone headed back to China once in-bound quarantine lifts on the 8th?

The greatest problem was all the staff getting sick at the same time the covid surge was happening. All those scenes of desperation were from 2-3 weeks ago in Beijing, at least. Turns out there was enough staff to handle the surge once they returned to work after a week. ICU admissions also peaked last week as well.

However, it's not going to be much help to anyone 80+ and unvaccinated. So it'll be a slow burn for the rest of next year.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
There is a serious risk of in-building spread given the standard lack of sewer traps, thus facilitating the spread of infectious fecal aerosols. This was already found to be an efficient mediator of viral transmission in the 2020 Guangzhou case study and the notorious Amoy Gardens outbreak of SARS in Hong Kong. So many people have still gotten infected while staying completely isolated inside their own apartment.

Recently more people have become aware of this and purchased bathroom drain covers to install when not in use.
I work in semiconductor, mostly in laboratory and cleanroom environments.

My living situation also does not have shared air ventilation.

What do you mean standard lack of sewer traps? All plumbing fixtures are required to have traps. They're not expensive either, it's literally a U shaped pipe section.

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