Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

KYli

Brigadier
For the 0% chance of death post-vaccine (according to Chinese RCT data), compared to 20% chance of death post-COVID infection if you are elderly comorbid, then choice is no brainer. Give exemptions for special cases (e.g., allergy to COVID vaccine), but the majority of 10% unvaxxed population, they are not special cases, they are voluntarily avoiding vaccination based on beliefs/attitudes/knowledge deficits. Strict lockdowns need to be accompanied by strict vaccination (with exemptions for special cases).
I wouldn't say 0%. In the real world, it is between 0.02% to 0.04% after 3 doses for people over 60 but we should also take into consideration when vaccines lost some of its effectiveness due to mutation or waning.

From what I read, it is possible to get over 95% vaccination rate for elderly through incentives, networking, and pressure. If it is only 5% or less of the elderly population that refused to vaccinate, then I think China could manage the surge if it decided to reopen. In the mean time, the Chinese government needs to drive the vaccination of elderly as quickly as possible. And get the 4 dose ready before the reopen if it is ready to do so.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I wouldn't say 0%.
Death due to vaccines itself is 0% according to Chinese RCT data for Sinovac/Sinopharm. Nobody died due to vaccines months after vaccination.
In the real world,
Chinese FDA does not approve medicine based on 'real world' data, it approves it based on RCT (gold standard in science). There is zero deaths due to vaccination itself according to RCT data.
it is between 0.02% to 0.04% after 3 doses for people over 60 but we should also take into consideration when vaccines lost some of its effectiveness due to mutation or waning.
0.02-0.04% death rate from vaccination itself or due to COVID among vaxxed? Either way, that's still better than >20% death rate from COVID infection among unvaxxed among elderly.
From what I read, it is possible to get over 95% vaccination rate for elderly through incentives, networking, and pressure.
Good news :)
If it is only 5% or less of the elderly population that refused to vaccinate, then I think China could manage the surge if it decided to reopen.
Bro, Unvaxxed 5% of population of 1.4 billion is a lot of people...that is equal to entire population of Germany or France (70 million people) who are unvaxxed and see how many deaths they have.
In the mean time, the Chinese government needs to drive the vaccination of elderly as quickly as possible. And get the 4 dose ready before the reopen if it is ready to do so.
I don't get the point.... you do 'zero COVID' but then have an entire Germany or France worth of people (5% or 70 million) who are unvaxxed.... what exactly is the point of 'zero COVID' (to save lives, or prevent infection?)

China should just force 100% vaccination, it can save so many lives in long term.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Death due to vaccines itself is 0% according to Chinese RCT data for Sinovac/Sinopharm. Nobody died due to vaccines months after vaccination.

Chinese FDA does not approve medicine based on 'real world' data, it approves it based on RCT (gold standard in science). There is zero deaths due to vaccination itself according to RCT data.

0.02-0.04% death rate from vaccination itself or due to COVID among vaxxed? Either way, that's still better than >20% death rate from COVID infection among unvaxxed among elderly.

Good news :)
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At the moment, the Chinese government is using the real world data to assess the outcome of reopening.
Bro, Unvaxxed 5% of population of 1.4 billion is a lot of people...that is equal to entire population of Germany or France (70 million people) who are unvaxxed and see how many deaths they have.

I don't get the point.... you do 'zero COVID' but then have an entire Germany or France worth of people (5% or 70 million) who are unvaxxed.... what exactly is the point of 'zero COVID' (to save lives, or prevent infection?)

China should just force 100% vaccination, it can save so many lives in long term.
Like I said, it is a moral, social and human rights question that has no good answer to.
 

KYli

Brigadier
This guy is one of many cockroaches that intentionally spreads the virus and causes the full blown outbreak in HK. Many of them think visiting pro-Beijing businesses to infect pro-Beijing Hong Kongers. However, in the end, nobody in HK is spare. Cockroaches are not only brainwashed but brain dead zombie.
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After the technician was infected with covid-19, he was involved in multiple bus rides within 5 days and went to the restaurant to spread the virus and was charged with 11 crimes
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
View attachment 87424
At the moment, the Chinese government is using the real world data to assess the outcome of reopening.

Again, this is low-quality surveillance data which does not identify source of death (heart attack, stroke, vaccine, COVID?), only a death was reported after getting vaccine. It's similar to CDC's VAERS database which cannot infer death due to vaccine itself. The best evidence we have is the gold standard clinical trials (RCTs) show zero deaths from vaccines.

Like I said, it is a moral, social and human rights question that has no good answer to.

Literally the gold standard in science (Randomized clinical trials) say vaccines are completely safe and does not cause death. It's not even a question, you don't use low-quality surveillance 'real world' data like VAERS which is self-reported, they could die due to heart attack or stroke after getting vaccine you don't know if death is caused by vaccination itself or heart attack or stroke.
 

Godzilla

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wouldn't say 0%. In the real world, it is between 0.02% to 0.04% after 3 doses for people over 60 but we should also take into consideration when vaccines lost some of its effectiveness due to mutation or waning.

From what I read, it is possible to get over 95% vaccination rate for elderly through incentives, networking, and pressure. If it is only 5% or less of the elderly population that refused to vaccinate, then I think China could manage the surge if it decided to reopen. In the mean time, the Chinese government needs to drive the vaccination of elderly as quickly as possible. And get the 4 dose ready before the reopen if it is ready to do so.
It is definitely possible. Just look at Australia. We have way over 95% of our 50+ population double vaccinated (Pfizer mostly), something like 99%! Booster shots are being administered too but its a little slower, mainly cause for some of us, that 3rd booster made us feel worst than actually getting covid.

I left China right at the start of the pandemic, and travelled between Hong Kong, China and Australia during all this (Visa was quite a challenge to get). I would say, Australia's COVID rules aside from the strict total lock downs were pretty much similar or on par with China's. Hong Kong's were a joke compared to both. We actually had a vaccine mandate, and despite all the noises those anti-vaxers made, Aussies are sheeps and followed along with the government, which was brilliant because our vax rate is awesome. If Aus can do it then no doubt can China.
Aus lost control last year because NSW didn't implement its lockdown early enough and gave up and spilled to the rest of the country. However, with the high vax rate, despite the surges, it levelled off pretty quickly and life is essentially normal again. The death rate for the pop of 25mil is about 20-30 daily from covid. This is all inspite of ScoMo's government's incompetence. There is definitely some take away here for China for its reopening, since Aus was COVID zero for the 1st 1.5 years of this pandemic too.

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KYli

Brigadier
Again, this is low-quality surveillance data which does not identify source of death (heart attack, stroke, vaccine, COVID?), only a death was reported after getting vaccine. It's similar to CDC's VAERS database which cannot infer death due to vaccine itself. The best evidence we have is the gold standard clinical trials (RCTs) show zero deaths from vaccines.

Literally the gold standard in science (Randomized clinical trials) say vaccines are completely safe and does not cause death. It's not even a question, you don't use low-quality surveillance 'real world' data like VAERS which is self-reported, they could die due to heart attack or stroke after getting vaccine you don't know if death is caused by vaccination itself or heart attack or stroke.
I think we are arguing two different things. Vaccines didn't cause deaths directly. I don't dispute that. As for the social, moral and ethical issues regarding forced vaccination or short term, long term, or even deaths that might have caused by vaccines. I don't have a good answer to that. There is a reason why most vaccines take years for them to make to the mandatory list.

My point is just that China might not have to force people to vaccinate if it could get enough elderly to be vaccinated. My argument is that if 95% or above of Chinese elderly got vaccinated, then Chinese hospitals probably can handle the surge as hospitalizations and deaths from only 5% of Chinese elderly can be much easier to handle.
 
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