So basically, a sad version of death stranding
Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)
- Thread starter localizer
- Start date
Covid is not a flu, and shouldn't be treated as such. Also this is just deaths, we don't know the how much people are affected by long covid and elevated level of heart disease risk, the effects will show up overtime in the amount of money big pharma earns, total medical debt accumulated, and excess mortality.
First of all, in the Chinese system the city secretary is actually the mayor and has more power than the mayor, and it is more intuitive to refer to him as the mayor. As an ordinary citizen I have no sway over who the mayor is, and shouldn't I be more concerned about what the mayor brings to the city?
In your reply you avoid Li Qiang's mistakes in his livelihood and instead emphasize that I thank Han because he put a lot of resources into Shanghai for its financial status when he was in office, which is actually very wrong. You really don't understand Shanghai, whose tax revenues have always actually been industry-led rather than financial! And Shanghai's ceiling as a financial port was set more than a decade ago, she can't surpass Hong Kong (sorry I can't provide the original document). I can understand your mixed emotions about Shanghai out of jealousy or anger, which is how I saw Hong Kong at the time. Han was pushing for the construction of the Qingcao Sha reservoir（青草沙水库） when he was in office, and for the first time since the water was turned on I realized that the tap water was not yellow! At the same time he gave to repaint the old house and put a new roof (平改坡). It is because he has done these things that I thank him, not the airy Shanghai financial status! As for Li Qiang, oh, the so-called project of replacing pipelines to old neighborhoods he only pays lip service and is not willing to move forward. Han Zheng and the others would be willing to come back unofficially to check on the work even after they got into the central government, and I remember them coming back and criticizing a lot of people and asking why they were doing this, which deviated from the development of people's livelihood. Why did cadres do that, and who told these original ministers to do that? I don't think I need to answer that.
This Shanghai outbreak was laid earlier in the year. At this particular time, the country has no money, so it is understandable that we should help the country share the burden as a member of the system. The state's decision to ask civil servants and state-owned institutions to cancel their bonuses and return some of them was perfectly correct, but it wouldn't work in Shanghai if it was implemented that way. For example, a SWAT team member in Shanghai is paid a basic salary of 4,100 RMB plus 800 RMB for meals, and the rest is made up of bonuses and overtime pay. But overtime pay was eliminated last year, so if you take away the bonus, you can imagine what would happen. As the bottom of the Shanghai system, the basic salary of social workers is only 3,000 yuan, while the minimum wage in Shanghai is 2,500 yuan. With only such a salary they are in fact taking on the front line of the organization's grassroots, so you can imagine what will go wrong. Shanghai civil service salary is a long-term formation of the problem, but in this case you say that Li Qiang do not know the consequences of the direct implementation of that I said he would not be without problems.
I wouldn't say I have no opinion about Shanghai's propaganda system, I know it's bad because it needs to be "market-oriented" and some things just don't work well. Also please note that Shanghai's propaganda minister at the time of the outbreak was parachuted in from the central government, and it was during his tenure that he wrote those reports on Xi'an and made Zhang Wenhong famous. The media in the system doesn't just send out whatever pieces they want. The current one is also parachuted in from the central government, and then came out with such things as the Eastern TV's Kang Epidemic Party（东方卫视的康疫晚会）. Rumor has it that the TV station employees themselves are opposed to but have no choice but to obey the leadership's decision. The new Shanghai propaganda minister will not know the party thing?
When the initial decision to close Wuhan is the central, Shanghai does not have the right to close their own. This is the system, you must obey the decisions of your superiors. Shanghai let people out? Then why does the high-speed rail still go through Shanghai station? Why does Shanghai's highway still run smoothly? Why can't China's Ministry of Transport suspend that traffic when it can ask Shanghai to guarantee the operation of the Shanghai port? Can Shanghai stop the high speed trains and make them stop in Shanghai?
In a way I'm glad Shanghai is making a fool of itself, the media and people focus on the prosperity of the Pujiang River, but ignore the fact that 100 meters from West Nanjing Road people are living in "advanced" slums with no separate bathrooms or kitchens. Focus on the people living in the Townsend One neighborhood（汤臣一品） where they can group buy Michelin Peking Roast Duck while ordinary citizens queue for three hours for a cabbage.
My expectation for Shanghai is military control, which will be equal and I think will be efficient because it removes the market element. That's the way I see it, but can the central government really do that?
First off, I hope you and the rest of your friends, family, and loved ones are safe from being infected from Covid-19 because am getting the vibe that you either live in Shanghai, or is from Shanghai. Secondly, I can empathize where your frustration is coming from especially with all the embarrassing show of the ineffectiveness of the government in not just one of the biggest cities in all of China, but also one of the wealthiest ergo is supposed to have the necessary tools to deal with any emergency situation.
Having said that, what would you have wished the government have done that could have made the difference in the outcome with respect to the handling of the covid-19 spread in Shanghai. And correct me if am wrong because I don't want to misinterpret what you wrote but are you implying or suggesting that if the Chinese political system was under a more western style system then the situation in Shanghai would have turned out differently? And that people like yourself would have more of a "SAY" or power in terms of impacting and effecting meaningful influence to political officer holders like the mayor if Shanghai as an example?
There is no city secretary. There is only Party Committee Secretary of Shanghai. I am not nitpicking but I want to be clear about the Chinese political system and its power structure.
It is true that Shanghai like all other Chinese cities is under dual party-government governing system, the mayor has less power than the Party Committee Secretary. However, I have never known anyone from Shanghai that can't differentiate Party Committee Secretary and the mayor. The Mayor of Shanghai still enjoys considerable power that has more control in certain areas and policies and administration of Shanghai that Party Committee Secretary doesn't have.
In addition, members of Party Committee or anyone of vice mayors that seat on the Committee also have many say in policies. Of course, Li Qiang as the Party Committee Secretary can strong arm policies but Mayor and vice mayors have more control of day to day operations of the city.
I didn't avoid blaming Li Qiang. I am saying you blame Li Qiang for everything which I find it convenient.
I don't envy or am I jealous of Shanghai. I wish Shanghai all the best and hopefully surpass Hong Kong eventually in the financial sector. China needs an international financial center that can rival New York and London.
I am not here to defend Li Qiang. I am just saying that people in Shanghai have been criticized of their Party Committee Secretary and Mayors for sometime. It doesn't mean that the grievances against Li Qiang and other city leaders are not legit.
However, I just want to point out that many wealthy provinces or cities including Shanghai, Zhejiang, and Shenzhen have overpaid their pensioners and city workers through bonus including teachers. It is only recently that the central government started to rein in such over payment that is draining the resources of pension and cities coffer. I have known many retirees from Shanghai, Fujian and Guangdong that were paid tens of thousands yuan per month. I understand they deserve a good retirement but not at depleting cities financial well being.
Another blame the central government. Isn't it too convenient? It is not like Shanghai didn't have the habit of demonizing other provinces before the pandemic.
It is not banning people from Shanghai from leaving but Shanghai never categorizes any high risk areas that prevent other provinces to flag people from Shanghai so that they could be tested and quarantined.
Other provinces including Beijing have the policies to designate certain areas of high risk for having 5 symptomatic cases or 2 clusters of cases. Shanghai doesn't have such policies. So everyone coming out of Shanghai were never designated high risk which is the reason why so many provinces need to deal with the spread of virus coming from Shanghai now.
I think it is too late for military control. The worst would be over within a week or so. No point of military control now. However, many officials in Shanghai should be held accountable including Li Qiang. However, I won't assign blame to everyone at the moment. The focus should still be fixing the problems. In addition, I think Shanghai should set up some sort of local community organizations or some sort of community services sign up program to deal with future emergency. Shanghai emergency response at the grass root level has failed miserably compare with other cities.
There is no need to immediately link everything (success or failure) to clique (political factions). What clique was Wuhan's “sacked" party chief "Ma Guoqiang" for under-performance of Wuhan covid handling? Hadn't other "members of cliques" been sacked? Taking too much of the "clique" thing instead of sticking to the specific matter of merit is counter productive and dangerous.
BTW, the real head of any Chinese institution is the party chief, not the mayor or provincial governor.
What does it say?
Ah its that one huh.
It was once (months, years?), where the foreign minister Li Zhaojian (I think his name is), said to foreign journalist that they should be happy to live in China as compared to other countries.