Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

LawLeadsToPeace

Senior Member
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Registered Member
I think the real question is what is the plan?

By now I think it is generally agreed that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. Even many scientists in China say there needs to be a way forward. To me, there is a sense of an aversion to total lockdown (save Shenzhen, obviously due to spillover), and the reason is to try to control the spread as much as possible, not actually eliminate it. That is my sense.

HK was a big failure in the way it is handled. Part of it has been the slow as molasses decision making of the top officials. If they were in the mainland, they would have been fired by now. Now everyone in the mainland knows what the worst case scenario is, and learning how to avoid it.

Are asymptomatic cases still being quarantined in quarantine centers in the mainland?
China says that they are waiting for the virus to go endemic based on certain variables that is used in virology or a field like that. However, I don’t think they are totally saying everything. Personally, I believe they are not willing to open up due to these additional reasons:

1. They are extremely aware of long covid and how damaging an infection, regardless of severity and the infected person’s vaccination status, can be.
2. They haven’t produced any domestic medicines that can easily fight against the infection or treatments for long covid. They have no interest in being controlled by a foreign nation in this regard.
3. Long covid is still being investigated, so there is no clear picture of how it occurs and its rate of occurrence.
 

KYli

Brigadier
I think the real question is what is the plan?

By now I think it is generally agreed that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. Even many scientists in China say there needs to be a way forward. To me, there is a sense of an aversion to total lockdown (save Shenzhen, obviously due to spillover), and the reason is to try to control the spread as much as possible, not actually eliminate it. That is my sense.

HK was a big failure in the way it is handled. Part of it has been the slow as molasses decision making of the top officials. If they were in the mainland, they would have been fired by now. Now everyone in the mainland knows what the worst case scenario is, and learning how to avoid it.

Are asymptomatic cases still being quarantined in quarantine centers in the mainland?
Asymptomatic cases are still being quarantine in quarantine centers but not in hospitals anymore.

I think the biggest lesson that the mainland China can learn from HK is that you need to vaccinate senior citizens. HK's failure to vaccinate senior citizens and immunocompromised people are the biggest cause of deaths. Mainland China vaccination rate of senior citizens is still too low compare with other countries.

Western countries and MSM are desperately trying to paint China's zero covid policy as a failure. But even until now, zero covid policy has saved countless lives. We can't dismiss the usefulness of zero covid policy.

As for a way forward, I think it is very difficult to implement a plan that can cope with covid but at the same time avoid lock down. The thinking is other provinces and cities follow Shanghai's dynamic zero policy. But other provinces and cities don't have the same resources as Shanghai has. Most of these places can't do contact tracing and mass testings to minimize the cases or do they have enough hospitals to treat and provide care to so many patients.

The best option right now is still doing lock down to eliminate cases. Buying more times to increase vaccination rate, development and deployment of new vaccines, understanding of the long term effects of covid, and testing of new treatments and drugs. Feedback from SK is mortality rate is 0.14 and 0.53 for HK, HK mortality rate is inching up.

After China has high enough vaccination rate with booster especially for elderly and deployment of new treatments and vaccines. China can experiment with more flexible dynamic zero policy(living with the virus but actively flatten the infection curve). From HK's experience, densely populated area might need to build temporary quarantine facilities for patients even after China decided to end zero covid policy.

Mass testings and quarantine are still necessary as hospitals don't have the capacity to deal with a surge. China could consider such move in winter or next spring as new variant should arrive and we should have idea if the virus would be less lethal, more contagious, and how well vaccines work against the new variant.

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OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
The 3rd dose is still the original vaccine, that is why you need updated vaccines as boosters that target the newer variants.
For faster vaccines development, you need local mRNA vaccines.

If China could eradicate covid, then maybe they should try eradicating the seasonal flu as well. Remember that, most people in China already got 2 doses of vaccines. So it was testing together with vaccination that had kept cases to very low levels.

Once you have a good technology platform, the biggest time factor in getting new vaccines to market is clinical trials, not development speed.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
The best option right now is still doing lock down to eliminate cases. Buying more times to increase vaccination rate, development and deployment of new vaccines, understanding of the long term effects of covid, and testing of new treatments and drugs. Feedback from SK is mortality rate is 0.14 and 0.53 for HK, HK mortality rate is inching up.
The mortality rate of HK could be lower because their testing capacity was overwhelmed by the massive surge of cases, so they change focus from mass testing to controlling the virus.

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KYli

Brigadier
The mortality rate of HK could be lower because their testing capacity was overwhelmed by the massive surge of cases, so they change focus from mass testing to controlling the virus.

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It could be lower but not by too much. Hong Kong has started to include antigen tests a few days ago. Mortality rate is still inching up. Most of the deaths are elderly over 80 years old. I think only 15% of Hong Konger 80 and over vaccinated before the outbreak. HK newspaper and cockroach which spread fear mongering is chiefly to blame.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
It could be lower but not by too much. Hong Kong has started to include antigen tests a few days ago. Mortality rate is still inching up. Most of the deaths are elderly over 80 years old. I think only 15% of Hong Konger 80 and over vaccinated before the outbreak. HK newspaper and cockroach which spread fear mongering is chiefly to blame.
There are estimation that 1.8 million Hong Kongers are infected in this wave and seeing the quantity of asyimptomatic cases in China i do not doubt it. This virus expand so fast that even having a much lower death rate than other variants it will found its way to vulnerable people.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
And yes not vaccinating people over 60 in Hong Kong was a mistake, if safety was a concern to no vaccinate elderly people the should have used a vaccines with higher safety rate, some protection is always better than not protection.
 

KYli

Brigadier
There are estimation that 1.8 million Hong Kongers are infected in this wave and seeing the quantity of asyimptomatic cases in China i do not doubt it. This virus expand so fast that even having a much lower death rate than other variants it will found its way to vulnerable people.
1.8 million HKers are infected seem reasonable estimate. But don't forget, daily deaths are increasing between 200 to 300 a day. If we estimated that 50% of HKers would contract the virus in this wave, then 0.53 mortality rate out of 3.7 million would be around 20,000. Hopefully, we wouldn't see that many deaths. But I do think deaths would be at least north of 10,000 in this wave.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I think the real question is what is the plan?

By now I think it is generally agreed that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle. Even many scientists in China say there needs to be a way forward. To me, there is a sense of an aversion to total lockdown (save Shenzhen, obviously due to spillover), and the reason is to try to control the spread as much as possible, not actually eliminate it. That is my sense.

HK was a big failure in the way it is handled. Part of it has been the slow as molasses decision making of the top officials. If they were in the mainland, they would have been fired by now. Now everyone in the mainland knows what the worst case scenario is, and learning how to avoid it.

Are asymptomatic cases still being quarantined in quarantine centers in the mainland?

The plan is:

a) wait until Olympics and Paralympics is over.
b) stockpile huge inventory of antibody cocktails, antiviral drugs for the breakthrough cases that need hospitalization
c) then public campaign to shift goalpost to death minimization rather than infection minimization/eradication.
d) ??? wait for West to officially formally give up ???
e) Profit.

China is already at like +90% fully vaccinated, plenty of boosted. We just need plentiful antibody cocktails for inevitable breakthrough cases that need hospitalization. The goal should shift to saving lives, not preventing infections. There is a significant political aspect involved as well, so maybe China is trying to time it with West giving up publically. Nobody really knows when Beijing will lift the gas pedal. Waiting for mRNA doesn't make sense since it is not a gamechanger. But stockpiling antibody cocktails does make sense. Maybe that is their strategy.
 
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