Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

[Tyler]

Not necessarily in every trial. I specifically talked about the over 90% figure of Pfizer. That figure was initial report based on partially collected data according to the medical journal. This was pointed out in this thread at that time. We have not discussed nor has any news reported the final study result.

I don't believe any trial could force participant (in the tens of thousands) to periodically visit the clinic to get PCR test. Double blind method can not make sure participant to visit the clinic based on their own judgement of symptom. Without mandated and enforceable measures, the trail is only as accurate as the participant's personal feelings.

The exception is if the trial are conducted among participants of organizations such as Hospital. Only this way, you can guarantee accurate reporting. This was what SinoVac did in Brazil. The outcome is of course "worse" than the rosy Pfizer because hospital staff has much higher chance of contracting virus than a general person who probably wear mask and goes nowhere.

This is to say that "this trail is not that trail". Trail is a guess work after all.


I did not say that "reducing symptoms" is the ONLY outcome of vaccine. All vaccine are essentially "reducing symptoms" including what you listed. Whether they can eliminate the virus depends on the virus mutation rate and social measures to reduce the R-rate.

Vaccine reduce symptoms of the infected person, by doing so it reduce the viral load of the infected person, therefore the person has much less chance to pass on to another person, the R-rate is therefor reduced. Eventually eliminate the virus. That is how vaccines eliminated all the viruses that you listed.

But Flu and SARS-CoV-2 are different because they mutate so fast that before the viral pool is eliminated, the new variant has began a new round.

It is not scientifically appropriate to simply say Chinese vaccines are better than mRNA based. Nor is mRNA better than inactivated vaccine. I have been fighting the notion of "mRAN" is better, but bloating inactivated vaccine is equally baseless.

The last sentence seems self contradictory. No vaccine can be used on everyone, >90% is as much as you can get.


They don't have the facility and manufacturing capability for inactivated vaccine even if they wanted to. The process requires Biosafe 3 which non of them have. China went this path because China has built the facilities and capabilities for another vaccine program 10 years ago.

All these subjects have been thoroughly discussed in this thread from 2020.

Are flu vaccines from western countries inactivated vaccines? do they need Biosafe 3 for making flu vaccines?

 

[Tyler]

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Pfizer is now testing these anti-viral pills. Are there any Chinese mRNA vaccines or anti-viral pills ready yet? They really need mRNA vaccines to speed up the opening up of the country.

 

[BlackWindMnt]

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Pfizer is now testing these anti-viral pills. Are there any Chinese mRNA vaccines or anti-viral pills ready yet? They really need mRNA vaccines to speed up the opening up of the country.

Didn't china have nasal spray vaccine that was super effective?
Lets first wait a couple of months/years before saying Merck made some covid be gone magic pill, the whole mRNA vaccines affair makes me thing twice about western medicine..

 

[gadgetcool5]

Pfizer says its COVID antiviral pill cuts risk of death or hospitalization by 89%​

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Pfizer's stock is surging today.

 

[taxiya]

Are flu vaccines from western countries inactivated vaccines? do they need Biosafe 3 for making flu vaccines?

Influenza(Flu) vaccines do not need BSF 2.
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Human influenza viruses are handled and cultured under biosafety level 2 (BSL-2) conditions while highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses (HPAI) have to be handled and cultured under BSL-3 conditions.

In the west they can be inactivated or live attenuated (live virus just reduced activity), both need cultivation of live virus in large quantity. I got a shot years ago and I guess it was a live attenuated because I got 2 days of muscle ache instead of the usual 6 days if I catch a flu. So I decided never to take such shot again because it is "useless" for me since I am not in any high risk category and taking the shot is worse (guaranteed) than taking my chance not to catch the flu.

SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2 (Covid-19) need BSF 3.
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Cultivation of SARS-CoV in cell culture must be carried out in a BSL3 facility using BSL3 practices and procedures.

 

[Tam]

Are flu vaccines from western countries inactivated vaccines? do they need Biosafe 3 for making flu vaccines?

They are either inactivated or adeno vector type. Adeno vector are those like Can Sino, Johnson and Johnson, Astra Zeneca and Sputnik V. Adeno vector is they use a common flu virus called adenoviruses, that's dead or inactivated, and with a modified spike protein from the target viruses or virii. A flu vaccine can have a wide range or pallet of target viruses.

 

[taxiya]

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Pfizer is now testing these anti-viral pills. Are there any Chinese mRNA vaccines or anti-viral pills ready yet? They really need mRNA vaccines to speed up the opening up of the country.

Please stop repeating the mRNA "superiority" myth, haven't you seen the covid daily case trend in US (mRNA) and Israel (mRNA) along with their vaccination process?

Who said China (mainland only in this context) is in a hurry to open up the country to the nasty dirty outside? I know you want China to open up, but you can not possibly speak for China (mainland), can you? Your doing is like me (main-lander living in Europe) saying that American people WANT to adopt zero tolerance policy. Do you see how absurd that "I know what you want" attitude is? It is not only absurd but quite offensive.

 

[Quickie]

Singapore as we know has been mostly vaccinated with mRNA vaccines whereas its neighbor country Malaysia started off with mostly Sinovac before converting to mRNA vaccines with a mix of other vaccines.

Purveyors of mRNA vaccines, who would expect Singapore to perform much better than Malaysia with its mix of vaccines in its vaccination program, would be surprised by the real-world results since at the last count the per capita daily infection cases of the former is about 4 times that of latter, and that is not counting the higher vaccination rate of Singapore?. The difference is not that far off a few weeks back (or even about the same) but cases in Malaysia have been dropping for quite a while, while cases in Singapore have been going the other direction.

 

[Bellum_Romanum]

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Pfizer is now testing these anti-viral pills. Are there any Chinese mRNA vaccines or anti-viral pills ready yet? They really need mRNA vaccines to speed up the opening up of the country.

Yo, do you own any or some of the stocks that produces the MRna vaccines because you have been going off on this shit like you a broken salesman. China will open the country when it see fits and it will do so on it's own timeline not yours, mine or anyone else's. Give it a rest buddy. MRna ain't the shit as they cracked up to be bases on real world wide results.

 

[taxiya]

Yo, do you own any or some of the stocks that produces the MRna vaccines because you have been going off on this shit like you a broken salesman. China will open the country when it see fits and it will do so on it's own timeline not yours, mine or anyone else's. Give it a rest buddy. MRna ain't the shit as they cracked up to be bases on real world wide results.

Or he has more than the stock investment in the west that he want to drag China down to the level of the west (a hell hole of pendamic), so he can feel better out of jealousy and the metality of "if I go down I will take all of you".