Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

10thman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Guys, may I ask you a quick question, if someone (my staff) got infected and developed symptoms as follows: mild flu like > cough > lose taste and smell but body temperature are normal. How serious is her? She's been vaccinated with 3 doses. The bad thing is she's pregnant and cannot take medicine except Vitamin C and Paracetamol.
I can't answer your question, but Vitamin D might help
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KYli

Brigadier
Guys, may I ask you a quick question, if someone (my staff) got infected and developed symptoms as follows: mild flu like > cough > lose taste and smell but body temperature are normal. How serious is her? She's been vaccinated with 3 doses. The bad thing is she's pregnant and cannot take medicine except Vitamin C and Paracetamol.
Lose taste and smell and minor cough shouldn't be a problem. High fever, severe cough and shortness of breath which indicate pneumonia then she needs to be hospitalized.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Does she have any comorbidities? Diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure? Any problems in pregnancy? Assuming the answers to the above she's most likely going to be fine.

Despite what many assume, pregnancy isn't correlated with worse covid outcomes. Women who are pregnant are for the most part healthy young women with good immune systems.
No comorbidities, except symptoms as I described in my previous post, there is no other symptom and she is on the 5th week of pregnancy. Actually she has just discovered herself being pregnant a few days before being diagnosed of Covid-19 infection. She hasn't even visited doctor for her pregnancy. In normal days, she's young (early 30s) and healthy.

That sucks. Is she confirmed covid positive or just suspected?
My impression is that pregnancy is a risk factor for covid severity. Should be ok but Needs to be closely observed especially her cough and breathing. Low threshold to go to hospital.
It's about how you define "confirm". By our standard, she's suspected because it's me who diagnosed her to be infected with fast test kit. To be confirmed needs a PCR result but usually we would avoid that unless it's serious. For minor or no symptom, we would choose to treat ourselves at home because we are all vaccinated and there are formula of treating Covid-19 with some rather simple medicine. The problem is she's pregnant and can't take those medicine that makes me worried.

Lose taste and smell and minor cough shouldn't be a problem. High fever, severe cough and shortness of breath which indicate pneumonia then she needs to be hospitalized.
Only minor symptoms. What makes worried is that she can't take medicine. Actually, we aren't really afraid of Covid-19 as before because we are vaccinated, healthy and as long as we can accept medicine. Our daily Covid-19 death is single digit. Among those, 50% ~ 60% aren't vaccinated. For example: Covid-19 death of Nov 2nd was 7, 5 of those weren't vaccinated and Nov 3rd was 6 while 3 weren't vaccinated.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I'm not sure I fully understand your post, but I'll try to answer it as best I can.

WHO has given guidance on what constitutes an approval for vaccine. for COVID it was set at 50% effectiveness - that is having the vaccine administered would reduce the chance of you contracting the disease by 50%.

At the time this was announced 50% was believed to be very low and generous to the pharmaceutical industry. Vaccines often boast of 90+ percent effectiveness in trials when marketing, and that's what the initial clinical data seemed to show.

Over the past year however the effectiveness has dropped. They've moved the goalposts by claiming that the purpose of the vaccination wasn't to stop you getting the disease but to reduce the severity of the disease. We can clearly see this with the repeated outbreaks in western countries despite a high uptake of vaccination.

Either the initial clinical trials were flawed, fraudulent, or the virus is mutating too quickly to make the vaccine uneffective. Or all of the above.

People are monitored very closely in clinical trials. They report all symptoms, from coughs to nausea. You're right that sometimes people don't visit the doctor when they aren't sufficiently unwell, or they may not disclose symptoms in the clinical trial. But the presence of the double blind control group should mitigate that source of error.
...
Epidemics *were* stopped with vaccinations - look at polio, smallpox. The policy was administer vaccinations - eliminate the disease. Can you name any other vaccine programme in the past where it was offered to reduce symptoms?

In my opinion the reason why the Chinese vaccines are more successful is because they used existing technology which have been proven to work for decades. Inactivated viruses can't be used on everyone but are suitable for >90% of the population.

Western companies went for vaccines based on a new and untested process. I don't know the machinations of western government emergency approval but I do believe there was some corruption involved.

Well, I can tell you for sure than influenza vaccines aren't 90% effective either and I still take that. As a result I either don't get visibly infected or get much less symptoms. The difference with the vaccines in my case is often either just a runny nose vs broncopneumonia. Ideally the COVID vaccine would immunize the population and lead to the virus' extinction. But clearly that is not happening. We don't even know the original reservoir of the disease. Plus it is well known that the immunization of the vaccines in the case of COVID doesn't really last past 6 months. This was well established a long time ago with people who recuperated from COVID infection getting re-infected past that time. This is similar to the flu vaccine. It was foolhardy to expect the COVID vaccine to last more than natural immunization.

FYI they typically measure effectiveness by if you get visible symptoms and need to go to the hospital or not. At least I know that is the case with the flu vaccine and even then that one is only considered to be 40-60% effective because the virus mutates a lot.

There have been recent reports that some of the Pfizer tests in the USA were improperly done with improper double-blind procedure, and cases of people reporting symptoms getting ignored. Add to that the virus mutations, I doubt it is more effective than the Chinese inactive vaccine in reality, especially when one has the whole virus shell and the other just a small snippet of it. I was never that convinced by it, and since here where I live they only administer the mRNA vaccines, I am self-isolating and haven't vaccinated with it yet. I wish we had an inactivated vaccine here. I might eventually go for the J&J or AZ if those become available but I doubt they are all that great either. I'm not a big fan of injecting myself with replicating nonsense.

In my opinion the reason they pushed the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines was because it meant they had a monopoly on the vaccine. It also was supposed to force 3rd world countries to purchase vaccines from them because they don't have the infrastructure to produce something like that. It is all a giant money game. The pharma industry is a major fraction of the US economy after all. That is why they pushed this untested crap out so quickly. I think this was foolhardy when the inactive vaccine is available. I doubt their claims their vaccine is more effective. Who knows possible side effects of this nonsense. Reminds me of the US pharma industry pushing Vioxx NSAID a couple decades back instead of something like Ibuprofen. Supposedly better, turns out it causes heart attacks.
They also claim their vaccine is supposedly faster to get into market but this clearly hasn't been the case since China got their inactive vaccine out just as fast or faster.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
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Western Media is so obsessed with Chinas Zero Covid strategy that it wastes no opportunity to pounce on it when they see a rise in cases. They really want China to abandon this strategy and have millions of cases like them just so that they can feel good about their own failures.

The fucked up thing is that China’s increased caseloads is a direct result of the west’s own collective collapse and capitulation in the fight against covid since these are all either imported cases or a direct result of infection by international arrivals.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
People are monitored very closely in clinical trials. They report all symptoms, from coughs to nausea. You're right that sometimes people don't visit the doctor when they aren't sufficiently unwell, or they may not disclose symptoms in the clinical trial. But the presence of the double blind control group should mitigate that source of error.
Not necessarily in every trial. I specifically talked about the over 90% figure of Pfizer. That figure was initial report based on partially collected data according to the medical journal. This was pointed out in this thread at that time. We have not discussed nor has any news reported the final study result.

I don't believe any trial could force participant (in the tens of thousands) to periodically visit the clinic to get PCR test. Double blind method can not make sure participant to visit the clinic based on their own judgement of symptom. Without mandated and enforceable measures, the trail is only as accurate as the participant's personal feelings.

The exception is if the trial are conducted among participants of organizations such as Hospital. Only this way, you can guarantee accurate reporting. This was what SinoVac did in Brazil. The outcome is of course "worse" than the rosy Pfizer because hospital staff has much higher chance of contracting virus than a general person who probably wear mask and goes nowhere.

This is to say that "this trail is not that trail". Trail is a guess work after all.

I disagree with your first paragraph.

Epidemics *were* stopped with vaccinations - look at polio, smallpox. The policy was administer vaccinations - eliminate the disease. Can you name any other vaccine programme in the past where it was offered to reduce symptoms?
I did not say that "reducing symptoms" is the ONLY outcome of vaccine. All vaccine are essentially "reducing symptoms" including what you listed. Whether they can eliminate the virus depends on the virus mutation rate and social measures to reduce the R-rate.

Vaccine reduce symptoms of the infected person, by doing so it reduce the viral load of the infected person, therefore the person has much less chance to pass on to another person, the R-rate is therefor reduced. Eventually eliminate the virus. That is how vaccines eliminated all the viruses that you listed.

But Flu and SARS-CoV-2 are different because they mutate so fast that before the viral pool is eliminated, the new variant has began a new round.
In my opinion the reason why the Chinese vaccines are more successful is because they used existing technology which have been proven to work for decades. Inactivated viruses can't be used on everyone but are suitable for >90% of the population.
It is not scientifically appropriate to simply say Chinese vaccines are better than mRNA based. Nor is mRNA better than inactivated vaccine. I have been fighting the notion of "mRAN" is better, but bloating inactivated vaccine is equally baseless.

The last sentence seems self contradictory. No vaccine can be used on everyone, >90% is as much as you can get.

Western companies went for vaccines based on a new and untested process.
They don't have the facility and manufacturing capability for inactivated vaccine even if they wanted to. The process requires Biosafe 3 which non of them have. China went this path because China has built the facilities and capabilities for another vaccine program 10 years ago.

All these subjects have been thoroughly discussed in this thread from 2020.
 
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WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, I can tell you for sure than influenza vaccines aren't 90% effective either and I still take that. As a result I either don't get visibly infected or get much less symptoms. The difference with the vaccines in my case is often either just a runny nose vs broncopneumonia. Ideally the COVID vaccine would immunize the population and lead to the virus' extinction. But clearly that is not happening. We don't even know the original reservoir of the disease. Plus it is well known that the immunization of the vaccines in the case of COVID doesn't really last past 6 months. This was well established a long time ago with people who recuperated from COVID infection getting re-infected past that time. This is similar to the flu vaccine. It was foolhardy to expect the COVID vaccine to last more than natural immunization.

FYI they typically measure effectiveness by if you get visible symptoms and need to go to the hospital or not. At least I know that is the case with the flu vaccine and even then that one is only considered to be 40-60% effective because the virus mutates a lot.

There have been recent reports that some of the Pfizer tests in the USA were improperly done with improper double-blind procedure, and cases of people reporting symptoms getting ignored. Add to that the virus mutations, I doubt it is more effective than the Chinese inactive vaccine in reality, especially when one has the whole virus shell and the other just a small snippet of it. I was never that convinced by it, and since here where I live they only administer the mRNA vaccines, I am self-isolating and haven't vaccinated with it yet. I wish we had an inactivated vaccine here. I might eventually go for the J&J or AZ if those become available but I doubt they are all that great either. I'm not a big fan of injecting myself with replicating nonsense.

In my opinion the reason they pushed the Moderna and Pfizer mRNA vaccines was because it meant they had a monopoly on the vaccine. It also was supposed to force 3rd world countries to purchase vaccines from them because they don't have the infrastructure to produce something like that. It is all a giant money game. The pharma industry is a major fraction of the US economy after all. That is why they pushed this untested crap out so quickly. I think this was foolhardy when the inactive vaccine is available. I doubt their claims their vaccine is more effective. Who knows possible side effects of this nonsense. Reminds me of the US pharma industry pushing Vioxx NSAID a couple decades back instead of something like Ibuprofen. Supposedly better, turns out it causes heart attacks.
They also claim their vaccine is supposedly faster to get into market but this clearly hasn't been the case since China got their inactive vaccine out just as fast or faster.
The true efficacy of the Pfizer Vaccine is probably 30%-40% as was reported in the trials in Israel.
The 90% efficacy figure was always very
suspicious and it has been confirmed by the recent reports of shoddy testing procedures.
There is a chance that inactivated Vaccines like Valneva and Covaxin could be available in North America.
Lets hope that this whole improper testing scandal blows up and makes people realise that Western Big Pharma companies are corrupted and have been pushing improperly tested vaccines on to the people of the world.
 

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
The true efficacy of the Pfizer Vaccine is probably 30%-40% as was reported in the trials in Israel.
The 90% efficacy figure was always very
suspicious and it has been confirmed by the recent reports of shoddy testing procedures.
There is a chance that inactivated Vaccines like Valneva and Covaxin could be available in North America.
Lets hope that this whole improper testing scandal blows up and makes people realise that Western Big Pharma companies are corrupted and have been pushing improperly tested vaccines on to the people of the world.
@WTAN it's rare to see you outside of the semiconductor thread. Thank you for your nugget of truth.
 
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