Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
The goal for China should always be to protect the most vulnerable and high-risk group of society (e.g. immunocomprised, elderly, comorbid patients), not to eradicate the disease for the general population. The goal of masks for children is not to eradicate the disease but to slow the growth of new variants that can thrive and mutate in unvaccinated young children.

In this light, China should communicate 'we must learn to live with it' ONLY when boosters for variants is available and society has a high vaccination rate (+80%), including vaccinated children. Lifting restrictions too early will harm the most high-risk group and breed more variants.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Excellent overview of Geopolitics via vaccines.

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  • China and Russia does not offer emergency use of Western (i.e. US and EU) vaccines, and Western does not offer emergency use of China and Russia vaccines
    • Caveat:
    • Russia's Sputnik is currently seeking European approval
    • China's Sinovac is currently seeking European approval
    • Western's Pfizer/BioNTech is currently seeking Chinese approval.
    • Neither China/Russia is seeking American approval.
  • China does not offer emergency use of Russian vaccine (Sputnik) and Russia does not offer emergency use of Chinese vaccines (all).
  • India has accepted Western and Russian vaccines and even Chinese vaccines (via COVAX initiative), but in practice uses Western/Russian vaccines, probably due to technology transfer and manufacturing.

The most striking part is that China and Russia don't like each other's vaccines. Why does Russia not approve Sinopharm or Sinovac? And why China does not approve Sputnik?
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Excellent overview of Geopolitics via vaccines.

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  • China and Russia does not offer emergency use of Western (i.e. US and EU) vaccines, and Western does not offer emergency use of China and Russia vaccines
    • Caveat:
    • Russia's Sputnik is currently seeking European approval
    • China's Sinovac is currently seeking European approval
    • Western's Pfizer/BioNTech is currently seeking Chinese approval.
    • Neither China/Russia is seeking American approval.
  • China does not offer emergency use of Russian vaccine (Sputnik) and Russia does not offer emergency use of Chinese vaccines (all).
  • India has accepted Western and Russian vaccines and even Chinese vaccines (via COVAX initiative), but in practice uses Western/Russian vaccines, probably due to technology transfer and manufacturing.

The most striking part is that China and Russia don't like each other's vaccines. Why does Russia not approve Sinopharm or Sinovac? And why China does not approve Sputnik?
Are we talking about approval for use or also about approval of access/travel. If I'm not mistaken there were talks that Russian wouldn't be allowed to support their teams in the EU if they were vaccinated with a non western vaccine etc.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
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Except in Wuhan, no increase in overall mortality was found during the three months of the covid-19 outbreak in other parts of China. The lower death rates from certain non-covid-19 related diseases might be attributable to the associated behaviour changes during lockdown.

Excess Mortality for other countries -
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
Remember Steve Bannon? That POS?
That particular POS has a podcast called The War Room (boomer!!!) where he hosted a molecular biologist who spread the misinformation that:
The [COVID-19] vaccine causes the virus to become more infectious than would happen in the absence of vaccination”; “the [viral] titers in the vaccinated are actually higher than in the unvaccinated
Complete and utter bullshit.
On 28 July 2021, the podcast War Room: Pandemic, hosted by Steve Bannon, published this
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with molecular biologist Robert Malone, a former researcher at the Salk Institute. The video was widely shared on social media platforms, receiving more than 25,000 interactions on Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, and Twitter (see examples
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,
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,
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, and
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)


Both Bannon and Malone have previously spread
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on
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. In November 2020, Twitter
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Bannon after he suggested that certain U.S. officials like Anthony Fauci should be beheaded, violating the platform’s policies against the “glorification of violence”.
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the podcast’s channel in January 2021 for violating the platform’s policies on misinformation.

During the interview, one of the primary claims made by Malone is that COVID-19 vaccination will make SARS-CoV-2 more dangerous due to a mechanism called
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(ADE). ADE occurs when antibodies don’t block a virus from infecting cells, but instead improve its ability to infect cells. This phenomenon increases the risk that individuals with preexisting antibodies from previous natural infection or vaccination develop more severe disease when exposed again to the viru
s.

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that COVID-19 vaccines would cause ADE started circulating on social media platforms early in the pandemic. Such claims are baseless and actually contradict scientific evidence, as we explain below.

The first reports of ADE came from patients with
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infections. Researchers observed that previous infection with one of the four
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of the virus often worsened the symptoms of the disease if the person had a second infection with a different serotype. This phenomenon
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for dengue,
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(RSV),
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, and some coronaviruses, including
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(SARS-CoV-1) and
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(MERS-CoV).

Scientists did express concern over the potential of ADE during the development of COVID-19 vaccine candidates[1]. However, previous knowledge helped researchers to minimize this risk from the early stages of COVID-19 vaccine development[2]. This influenced critical decisions during vaccine design, such as the choice to target the spike protein instead of other viral proteins that had caused ADE in vaccine candidates against past coronaviruses[3]. Researchers also conducted specific animal studies to detect ADE and
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clinical trial participants for any sign of this phenomenon during the testing of COVID-19 vaccine candidates[4].
Continued below:
 

DarkStar

Junior Member
Registered Member
The result of this awareness is that the COVID-19 vaccines developed so far showed no signs of ADE in animal studies, clinical trials, or during vaccine rollout. Real-world studies further demonstrate that all FDA-authorized
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are
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in preventing severe disease and death[5,6]. Furthermore, infections in fully vaccinated individuals
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and tend to produce milder symptoms than in those who didn’t receive the vaccine[6,7]. This is exactly the opposite of what one would expect if ADE was occurring.


During the interview, Malone further claimed that SARS-CoV-2 variants are “most likely developing in the people who have been vaccinated”, increasing the risk of ADE. As Health Feedback explained in
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, current evidence doesn’t support the claim that COVID-19 vaccines lead to more viral variants, and actually contradicts it.

Each time the virus replicates, it can introduce
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, which are changes in its genetic sequence. These changes are random and a natural process in viral evolution. The more infections the virus causes, the more times it replicates, increasing the likelihood of generating new mutations that might spread as new variants. Some studies suggest that
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also favor the development of new mutations.

Because COVID-19 vaccines
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, they also make it less likely for the virus to mutate and for new variants to spread. In contrast, unvaccinated individuals are
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to get infected and develop severe COVID-19, increasing the chances of
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to emerge. If COVID-19 vaccines did lead to more variants, those regions with higher vaccination rates would observe more new variants circulating among the population. This isn’t the case. In fact, all current
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emerged in 2020, before the vaccination campaigns began.

Given the above evidence that COVID-19 vaccines aren’t worsening the disease, on what grounds claimed Malone that COVID-19 vaccines cause ADE?

During the interview, Malone mentioned a
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by NBC News discussing an imminent update on
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from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). This update reversed previous indoor mask-wearing policy and recommended that fully vaccinated people wear masks indoors again in places with high transmission rates.

According to Malone, NBC News reported that this change in guidance responded to new data suggesting that people vaccinated against COVID-19 had more virus than unvaccinated individuals. Malone also shared this claim in a
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, together with a screenshot from a
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echoing that of NBC News. USA Today removed this part of the article in a
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. However, neither NBC News nor USA Today stated what Malone claimed they did. Instead, what they reported:

“The Biden administration is issuing new guidance Tuesday recommending indoor mask use in areas with high transmission rates, after reviewing new data suggesting fully vaccinated individuals are not just contracting Covid-19, but could also be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood and potentially able to infect others, according to multiple sources close to the discussion.”NBC News.
“NBC News, citing unnamed officials aware of the decision, reported it comes after new data suggests vaccinated individuals could have higher levels of virus and infect others amid the surge of cases driven by the delta variant of the coronavirus.”USA Today.
Multiple studies show that the few people who develop COVID-19 after receiving the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine tend to have a
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than unvaccinated people[8,9]. New data suggest that viral levels in vaccinated individuals who get infected with the Delta variant might be as high as in unvaccinated individuals, but not higher as Malone claimed[10]. These data imply that some vaccinated individuals who get infected might still transmit the virus to others. This is what informed the CDC’s decision to reverse face mask policy, as the NBC News article reported.

In summary, Malone misrepresented the NBC News article to claim that vaccinated individuals have higher virus levels than unvaccinated individuals, which is inaccurate. Vaccinated people who become infected generally tend to have a lower viral load compared to unvaccinated people. However, when infected with the Delta variant in particular, viral loads in vaccinated individuals can be similar to those in unvaccinated people, but not higher.

COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing severe COVID-19 and reducing the risk of infection. Malone’s claim that the COVID-19 vaccines cause ADE is contradicted by the fact that vaccinated individuals who become infected tend to have milder symptoms than unvaccinated individuals, rather than the opposite. By reducing the risk of infection and severe disease, COVID-19 vaccines also limit the spread of the virus within the population, making it less likely for new variants to emerge.

READ MORE​

The medicinal chemist Derek Lowe conducted a a
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of ADE in the context of COVID-19 vaccines in his blog on Science Translational Medicine. He also discussed previous research on ADE in different diseases and the mechanisms that can lead to the phenomenon.
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It's almost like Bannon knows he's going to die soon and wants as many ppl to die along with him as well.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The racist c..ts are letting loose and showing the world their true feelings against (not for) the Chinese people. What happened to I hate the See See Pee not the Chinese people. All this tirade for being ordered to quarantine upon arriving in China. Hope this b..ch get deported and haul back to the shithole she came from and belong.

 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The racist c..ts are letting loose and showing the world their true feelings against (not for) the Chinese people. What happened to I hate the See See Pee not the Chinese people. All this tirade for being ordered to quarantine upon arriving in China. Hope this b..ch get deported and haul back to the shithole she came from and belong.

And here is the pretentious CIA b..ch doing her field work in Mongolia researching on "Islam" probably producing materials to radicalize the people there and even nefariously blaming their plights to the commies of Chyna.

 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is not totally their fault. There are some issues with border control at the major international airports like Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou and some of the Guangdong container ports. But Nanjing is not a major international airport or container hub at all.

The effectiveness of local vaccines should be reviewed.
In China, your not being successful is a fault. That is a fundamental difference from what you were taught what "fault" is.

Seriously, who are you trying to fool? Yourself? Look at the figures in the last 30 days of daily cases.

To borrow your expression, with the raise of new cases in UK (AZ and Pfizer), Israel (Pfizer) and US (Pfizer and Moderna), the effectiveness of western and especially mRNA vaccines should be reviewed.

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
The most striking part is that China and Russia don't like each other's vaccines. Why does Russia not approve Sinopharm or Sinovac? And why China does not approve Sputnik?
There are two concepts:
  1. Approval of certain vaccine being administered within a country. That means export/import.
  2. Acceptance of vaccination certificate of certain vaccine allowing international travel.
The approval that is commonly talked about is the 1st one.

Russia has a relatively small population/market. Russia's own production of Sputnik V is likely enough to cover it. Russia does not have the production capability to export Sputnik V, remember that Russia was in talk with China to setup factory in China for export outside of China? This means that there is no point for Russia to apply for China's approval of Sputnik V. There is no point for Sinopharm or Sinovac to apply for Russian approval either.

The key is that Russia's small market size and its self-sufficiency that makes import/export meaningless.
 
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