Coronavirus 2019-2020 thread (no unsubstantiated rumours!)

Phead128

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Yes. But the Soviet Union also gave China massive support. They sent advisors and gave equipment from top to bottom. The fact is, China got their nuclear bomb with help from the USSR, and even their launcher program, got a head start with technical assistance from the USSR like getting the technical specifications and copies of the R-1 rocket. The Tu-16 was also transferred. Stalin gave Manchuria back to Mao, when it was firmly in Soviet control then. He even gave back territory which used to be part of the Russian Empire at one point. I could continue with more examples like this.

I think China is probably the country which got the most technical assistance from the USSR. None of the other countries, even those in the Warsaw Pact, got assistance as pervasive as China did. To a large degree they did use this assistance, otherwise how could a formerly ruined country build tanks and fighter jets so quickly, but a lot of it was wasted or ignored.

North Korea and Cuba had vibrant economies for the first two decades. But once the Soviets pulled some of the support out they started to collapse. Both countries are simply not large enough to have a proper self-reliant internal economy while the Soviet Union and China could. India was always a basket case I think.

Even as late as 1962 the Soviet Union refused to supply nuclear weapons to India against China when they were having the Indo-China war.
Russia imposed unequal treaties that annexed vast swaths of Qing China territory, actively encouraged Mongolian independence from Qing/ROC, and actively undermined China during the Sino-Soviet Split such as withdrawal of industrialization and aid. Also screwed China with massive debt post-Korean war.

China will never be a formal ally to Russia. China needs to be vigilant with the threat to the north that would seize more Chinese territory if China was weak again.
 

spring2017

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Russia imposed unequal treaties that annexed vast swaths of Qing China territory, actively encouraged Mongolian independence from Qing/ROC, and actively undermined China during the Sino-Soviet Split such as withdrawal of industrialization and aid. Also screwed China with massive debt post-Korean war.
You are right that China can not trust Russia, but the reason is because it is a capitalist country, and unlike the USSR, it does not share fundamental interest with socialist China.

More over, the Tsarist is completely different from the USSR, which is completely different from the current Russia. That's why nationalism is misleading, as it sees a state as the same person without seeing its class nature.

The Red Army from the USSR defeated more Japanese Army in China than all Chinese forces combined, and USSR provided massive technological and material aid to PRC during its weakest years, unpresented in human history.

The withdrawal of aid was because of China's breaking with USSR, after Mao was rightly criticized by the USSR regarding the disastrous Great Leap Forward. Also while giving aid is a virtue, withdrawing aid is hardly a crime.

The debt issue is misinformation. First, paying debt is a basic duty, even to a best friend. Moreover, the USSR did not press China for the debt, even after the slip-up.

We are way out of topic. So I will stop here. Sorry.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
You are right that China can not trust Russia, but the reason is because it is a capitalist country, and unlike the USSR, it does not share fundamental interest with socialist China.

More over, the Tsarist is completely different from the USSR, which is completely different from the current Russia. That's why nationalism is misleading, as it sees a state as the same person without seeing its class nature.

The Red Army from the USSR defeated more Japanese Army in China than all Chinese forces combined, and USSR provided massive technological and material aid to PRC during its weakest years, unpresented in human history.

The withdrawal of aid was because of China's breaking with USSR, after Mao was rightly criticized by the USSR regarding the disastrous Great Leap Forward. Also while giving aid is a virtue, withdrawing aid is hardly a crime.

The debt issue is misinformation. First, paying debt is a basic obligation, even to a friend. Moreover, the USSR did not press China for debt, even after the slip-up.

We are way out of topic. So I will stop here. Sorry.

Ugh.... Geopolitics transcends regimes, administrations, and dynasties. That's the whole point of GEOpolitics, it's politics informed by geography, not by government type...which is one of many factors.

I'll leave it at that, we are wayy off topic.
 

Tyler

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315 new cases in Taiwan yesterday, 312 of those new domestic cases.
They have refrained from buying Biontech vaccines, just because China's Fosun bought the rights for Greater China. All they needed to do was to ask for help from Beijing, then they can solve their testing problems.
 

Temstar

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The normally rare infection, called mucormycosis, has a mortality rate of 50%, with some only saved by removing an eye or jaw bone.
But in recent months, India saw thousands of cases affecting recovered and recovering Covid-19 patients.
Doctors suspect there may be a link with the steroids used to treat Covid.
Doctors have also told the BBC of how they were forced to remove people's eyes and jaw bones, trying to stop the spread before it reaches their brains but leaving the patient permanently disfigured.
But I thought plenty of country tried using steroid in treating COVID-19 symptoms (China included), to questionable result. No one else reported black fungus.

I think it's bullshit.
 

Sardaukar20

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Registered Member
(cont)
The epidemic has created a huge gap in India's economic growth, and the weak manufacturing industry has been a long-term problem for the country. India previously purchased a large number of hospital disinfection facilities, virus detection reagents and other products from overseas markets. Its local medical material manufacturers are far from enough to meet the soaring needs during the epidemic.

Unlike China which has become a manufacturing powerhouse, a lack of manufacturing capacity has long been a structural weak point in India's economy. The weakness is highlighted by the epidemic, and the gap between India's and China's manufacturing capabilities have made China a key source of support for India to maintain its economic operations.
China overtook the US as India's biggest trade partner in 2020, but despite an increase in bilateral trade, there is a significant asymmetry in the China-India trade relationship. India relies heavily on China's exports, far exceeding the extent of China's dependence on India.

Most of India's imports are from China. In 2020, $58.7 billion worth of goods were imported from China to India, more than the total Indian imports from the US and Saudi Arabia. In contrast, India ranks 16th among China's trade partners, and trade with India represents only 1.88 percent of China's total foreign trade.

Due to its lack of industries, most of India's imports from China are manufactured products which are key to its many economic activities, including electrical machinery and equipment. In 2020, India imported $17.82 billion in machinery, the biggest category of its imports.

Analysts said the lack of a manufacturing capacity has made India a key beneficiary of China's manufacturing power. India's economy integrates into the world economy mostly with service industries such as software outsourcing, but lacks a manufacturing foundation, which is a fatal flaw during the epidemic.
"China is willing to cooperate with India through multiple channels in helping it fight the epidemic, and we believe India can conquer it," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin said in April.
Help vs criticism

On Tuesday, the Indian government announced that the number of new deaths in a single day hit a new high to 4,329, and the number of new confirmed cases was 263,533. Although the terrible record of keeping more than 300,000 new cases in India for 25 consecutive days ended on May 17, the situation remains grim.

The pressure of India's epidemic prevention can be imagined, but some Indian media have been watching China closely, as if the country's crisis was partly caused by China.

The Times of India claimed that China controls the export of raw materials to India, which caused the price of new crown-related drugs in India to soar. In an interview with the South China Morning Post, Priyanka Chauhan, India's consul-general to Hong Kong, called on China to help stop surging prices and increase cargo flights to get urgently needed supplies to the epidemic-ravaged country.

Qian Feng, director of the research department at the National Strategy Institute at Tsinghua University, told the Global Times on Wednesday that due to changes in China-India relations, Indian media representing the elites have been critical of China in recent years. "This will not change even though China is actively exporting anti-epidemic materials to India."

In the face of criticisms from India, the Chinese government has still continued its efforts to help the country.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said that in April, China exported more than 26,000 ventilators and oxygen generators, more than 15,000 monitors, and nearly 3,800 tons of medical materials and medicines to India.
"Under the epidemic, no country can survive the epidemic alone," Qian said. "As India's neighbor, China never seeks reciprocation when helping India. It is China's big-picture thinking, and is in drastic contrast with the prejudice held by some Indian politicians and media against China."
Global Times may not be everyone's favourite news media. But kudos to them for yet another good work of investigative journalism. I know, GT is be biased as hell towards China and the CPC. But I'll take their word anytime over any Indian news media. The gap in credibility between them is massive.

How dare does Priyanka Chauhan, India's consul-general to Hong Kong, calls on China to stop surging prices and increase cargo flights to India? Well I would just say to her: "Do not ask for the impossible"; with two middle fingers shown to her face..

China's humanitarian efforts to help India out will ultimately be a thankless job. Apart from a handful of Indians, the rest wouldn't give any credit to China. Instead of telling the truth and thanking China, the MSM in India talks about China price gouging, blocking shipments, and Wuhan lab bioweapon conspiracies. I'm betting that when this epidemic disaster is over for India, they are gonna go back to pissing on China. More Quad activities, more boycott of China, more saber-rattling at China, maybe more provocations at the border. To the Jai Hinds, China's humanitarian help either never happened, or they think that China is subservient to them. If its up to me, India will get nothing until its leaders grovel and apologize before China.

Covid-19 exposes yet again the hollow promise of India to take over China as the new "factory of the world". Even back in 2015, I had a gut feeling that India's development was too focused on the service economy than on its industrial economy. A look at Japan, and all the Asian Tigers revealed that all these great economies start with a manufacturing economy, then would slowly transition to the service economy. Even Singapore, Taiwan, and HK had started out with manufacturing economies before any of their banks and skyscrapers showed up. India OTOH mostly skipped past that industrial economy phase, and dived straight into the services economy. Maybe because of "Indians can speak Inglish"? Well, that is a recipe for stagnation. Manufacturing and and exports create wealth. Wealth creates disposable income. Then new banks, restaurants, and IT companies get businesses from that growth of wealth? What's the point Jai Hinds celebrating Indian CEOs in the West? To me, most of these Indian CEOs don't create wealth for the masses. They create wealth only for the shareholders. They are all essentially parasites.

India from 2019-2021 have confirmed all of my suspicions that India's potential to rival China is all a big sham. All that India superpowah numba one by 20** is BS as f**k! What does India have to potentially rival and overtake China?

1) Manufacturing industry? Nope!
2) IT industry? Somewhat. But thanks to Trump, Chinese companies are developing their own hardware, software, apps, and OSes. India? Nothing close!
3) Pharma industry? Only until 2020 at most. China can rapidly close the gap. And it has proven in 2021 that it will take over India's soon-to-be-lost title of 'pharmacy of the world'.
4) Finance and banking? LOL! Give me a break!
5) Entertainment? Yeah no doubt India has Bollywood. But China had already overtaken the US as the biggest blockbuster market in 2020. Chances are, its entertainment industry will follow suit.
6) Space? Its 2021 already, and India has yet to send a man (not even a monkey) into space! Even Iran had sent a monkey into space.
7) Military? LOL! Paper elephant! Can't even scare Pakistan, don't talk about China.
8) Holy Cow? Oh yeah, for sure. India is the undisputed champion here. No one but India is interested to get its hands dirty for the Holy Cow.
 
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Sardaukar20

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But I thought plenty of country tried using steroid in treating COVID-19 symptoms (China included), to questionable result. No one else reported black fungus.

I think it's bullshit.
Well, I don't think its bullshit. Indian hospitals are not known to have the best of hygiene. Furthermore, India is no stranger to old and familiar killer diseases. TB, and Cholera are still killing scores of people in India. It does not surprise me that this outbreak of black fungus disease is just another one of the old diseases opportunistically doing its thing.
 
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NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
Global Times may not be everyone's favourite news media. But kudos to them for yet another good work of investigative journalism. I know, GT is be biased as hell towards China and the CPC. But I'll take their word anytime over any Indian news media. The gap in credibility between them is massive.

How dare does Priyanka Chauhan, India's consul-general to Hong Kong, calls on China to stop surging prices and increase cargo flights to India? Well I would just say to her: "Do not ask for the impossible"; with two middle fingers shown to her face..

China's humanitarian efforts to help India out will ultimately be a thankless job. Apart from a handful of Indians, the rest wouldn't give any credit to China. Instead of telling the truth and thanking China, the MSM in India talks about China price gouging, blocking shipments, and Wuhan lab bioweapon conspiracies. I'm betting that when this epidemic disaster is over for India, they are gonna go back to pissing on China. More Quad activities, more boycott of China, more saber-rattling at China, maybe more provocations at the border. To the Jai Hinds, China's humanitarian help either never happened, or they think that China is subservient to them. If its up to me, India will get nothing until its leaders grovel and apologize before China.

Covid-19 exposes yet again the hollow promise of India to take over China as the new "factory of the world". Even back in 2015, I had a gut feeling that India's development was too focused on the service economy than on its industrial economy. A look at Japan, and all the Asian Tigers revealed that all these great economies start with a manufacturing economy, then would slowly transition to the service economy. Even Singapore, Taiwan, and HK had started out with manufacturing economies before any of their banks and skyscrapers showed up. India OTOH mostly skipped past that industrial economy phase, and dived straight into the services economy. Maybe because of "Indians can speak Inglish"? Well, that is a recipe for stagnation. Manufacturing and and exports create wealth. Wealth creates disposable income. Then new banks, restaurants, and IT companies get businesses from that growth of wealth? What's the point Jai Hinds celebrating Indian CEOs in the West? To me, most of these Indian CEOs don't create wealth for the masses. They create wealth only for the shareholders. They are all essentially parasites.

India from 2019-2021 have confirmed all of my suspicions that India's potential to rival China is all a big sham. All that India superpowah numba one by 20** is BS as f**k! What does India have to potentially rival and overtake China?

1) Manufacturing industry? Nope!
2) IT industry? Somewhat. But thanks to Trump, Chinese companies are developing their own hardware, software, apps, and OSes. India? Nothing close!
3) Pharma industry? Only until 2020 at most. China can rapidly close the gap. And it has proven in 2021 that it will take over India's soon-to-be-lost title of 'pharmacy of the world'.
4) Finance and banking? LOL! Give me a break!
5) Entertainment? Yeah no doubt India has Bollywood. But China had already overtaken the US as the biggest blockbuster market in 2020. Chances are, its entertainment industry will follow suit.
6) Space? Its 2021 already, and India has yet to send a man (not even a monkey) into space! Even Iran had sent a monkey into space.
7) Military? LOL! Paper elephant! Can't even scare Pakistan, don't talk about China.
8) Holy Cow? Oh yeah, for sure. India is the undisputed champion here. No one but India is interested to get its hands dirty for the Holy Cow.
Plus India's pharma industry is based on low value mass production of medicines. When it comes to research and development of medicines and other biotech, China is ahead.

As mentioned before, India's production of vaccines hit a snag because the reagents and base materials come from China. In other words, India is just the packaging agent.

But whatever India is still number one right? Jai Hind!
 
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