COMAC C919
- Thread starter Deino
- Start date
The 7th C919 for China Eastern Airlines, with the tentative tail number B-002F, conducted taxiing tests yesterday. Maiden flight test is expected to be conducted very soon.
Posted by @老王RR涡扇发动机 on Weibo.
Posted by @老王RR涡扇发动机 on Weibo.
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wow number 7? chances are good then C919 will break into double digits by end year, and triple digits in five.
They compete directly with Boeing and Airbus, Southeast Asia region is one of the biggest market for narrow body aircraft.... It could take more than 10years just to get neck above the water on C919 production just for Chinese airlines.
A few questions
1) Other then the engines, what other critical component will be the most important for China to find a domestic replacement for ASAP? From my limited understanding of aviation, it should be the flight control system or the weather radar right?
2) Other than the engines, what critical components will China have the most difficulty in making a domestic version?
3) With the global supply chain being what it is, and with passenger jets becoming so complex, with hundreds of thousand of parts, do you think it's possible for China to ever field a 100% domestic plane, or will there always be some western parts somewhere in the manufacturing process? Even in critical systems?
lcloo
Captain
An MBA economist once said. Ideally the globalization (i.e. International trade) should allowed for countries to produce products that they are most efficient in making, and import from other countries who are excel in making their products. The biggest advantage is you get the good quality product at the cheapest cost.
Thus no one country would want to make a complex product like aircraft with 100% local content, unless some one named Biden cut off your access to your suppliers. Then you have no choice but to build your own supply chain, and whether that will be cost effective depends largely on (1) economy of scale and (2) do you have complete/near complete supply chain within your country, and from other friendly countries.
Economy of scales is on China side due to its large market size, and China's supply chain is top of the World. The question is when will COMAC reach the revenue: production cost money value break-even point and when will it reach the optimal point in economy of scales chart.
Another thing is oversea marketing. The perception that Western products are always better than made in China products lingers on in the minds of many foreigners. New technology like EV, battery technology etc have reduced this perception but the power of Western Media and influence of Western popularist politicians cannot be ignored. Thus using foreign parts would still be a preference choice for COMAC, if the price and quality is acceptable.
Will China made a commercial aircraft with 100% Chinese parts? I don't think so, unless Biden succeeded in banning all suppliers to do business with China, but then there will be a few Western companies setting up R&D centres and factories in China, developed parts free from US technologies and sell them to COMAC and others.
Thus no one country would want to make a complex product like aircraft with 100% local content, unless some one named Biden cut off your access to your suppliers. Then you have no choice but to build your own supply chain, and whether that will be cost effective depends largely on (1) economy of scale and (2) do you have complete/near complete supply chain within your country, and from other friendly countries.
Economy of scales is on China side due to its large market size, and China's supply chain is top of the World. The question is when will COMAC reach the revenue: production cost money value break-even point and when will it reach the optimal point in economy of scales chart.
Another thing is oversea marketing. The perception that Western products are always better than made in China products lingers on in the minds of many foreigners. New technology like EV, battery technology etc have reduced this perception but the power of Western Media and influence of Western popularist politicians cannot be ignored. Thus using foreign parts would still be a preference choice for COMAC, if the price and quality is acceptable.
Will China made a commercial aircraft with 100% Chinese parts? I don't think so, unless Biden succeeded in banning all suppliers to do business with China, but then there will be a few Western companies setting up R&D centres and factories in China, developed parts free from US technologies and sell them to COMAC and others.
Wouldn't having a lot of American and European parts in the C919 make it easier to obtain certification in these regions and hence let Comac gain a foothold in these markets initially?
Maybe Europe, but America is never gonna to buy a chinese jet. And even Europe isn't going to be big on COMAC no matter what, since they have Airbus.
Keep in mind that while that might have been the reason for using so many western parts in the C919, a lot of those supply chain and design decisions were made in the early-mid 2010s, long before the relationship between America and China nosedived so badly. Obviously things have changed since then and national security concerns like making sure that America can't kill off your aviation industry via sanctions is more important then an European certification that will probably only result in a tiny handful of sales anyway.
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me again ...
The image you have post ''C919 western components/parts'' is already been outdated for years..
Tires , Landing Gear system , Avionics , Radars , Glass cockpit and Auxiliary Power Unit from next year onward will be localized. all materials and machine tool have been replaced too. and the most important thing, Civil aviation aircraft assembling and design software have been localized too.
CrownCAD software was so hard. that China faced many difficulties but they have achieved complete independence. Chinese company claimed ''its CrownCAD has two key core technologies that are completely independent: "3D geometric modeling engine DGM" and "geometric constraint solver DCS"
CJ-1000A engine nacelle design and manufactured by AECC CAS.. nacelle of High bypass turbofan engine is complex as engine itself. very few companies have technology to produce.
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Chinese not only achieved their localized goal but also surpassed their own percentage with a significant margin.. now COMAC is looking for almost all core components produce within the country.
CJ-1000A certification process has begun officially. Team have assembled. if you want. i can even post the names of entire team. all are Young grads. average of collective sample team is 35 years..
The first testing sample have been successfully collected.
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CJ-1000 pulsating assembly line completed in September, 2022. more than 20+ units have already produced for different test process.
CJ-1000 is completed. now its all about airborne testing and certification process. this will take few more years. then engine will entre in small scale production..
