COMAC C919 - China's first modern airliner

If the C919 and MS-21 have different size types available, I can see Russia and China having trade deals for each other's planes covering different capacities to maximize operating efficiencies.

taxiya said:

Well, I think it is very realistic time to seriously consider it.
C929 and even beyond (C939??) were already in the road map at the beginning of China's commercial jet project when COMAC was not even officially established. It was in the mid-long term plan (one encompass several five-year plan). So I am sure that C929 is at least on the drawing board and in the wind tunnel already.

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That's right, work on C929 already started for sure. Just like design on 002 would have started long before 001A is done.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

C919 max load is 168 seats. stretched aims for 190 seats
MC21 200 targets 176 seats. but cranks it up with stretched variants going up to the MC21-400 at 230 seats.
A330 starts at 375 max seating for the A330-200 A340 takes it up to 440 max on the A340-600
C929 goes to 290 passengers With the Comac 939 maybe 390. any bigger you're getting into 747/380 class flying passenger liners complete with lounges and small casinos.

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I think the more comparable parameters for the aircrafts are the fuselage diameter and the range and not the capacity of the seats.

C919, MS-21 and A318/319/320/320 they have all abour the same diameter of around 4 meters.

C929 will have a diameter of around 5.6 m like A330/340

C939 will be more like B777 and A350XWB with a diameter of about 6 meters.

Aircrafts with approximatetly the same diameter size also have approximatetly the same range:

C919,MS21 and A320 around 5500km
C929, A330/340 around 12000km
C939, B777, A350XWB up to 17000km

montyp165 said:

If the C919 and MS-21 have different size types available, I can see Russia and China having trade deals for each other's planes covering different capacities to maximize operating efficiencies.

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Not sure about this, all we heard is technical cooperation on future wide body plane. The solid cooperation happening actually is between COMAC and Bombardier, they have signed long-term collaboration agreement for years.

The four initiatives COMAC and Bombardier will collaborate on are: 1) specific areas of theCSeries aircraft flight test activities pertaining to non-flying tasks, 2) implementing and maintaining the common items that were achieved as part of Phase I, 3) sales and marketing, and 4) certain areas of customer services related to training, technical publications and parts distribution.

The second phase of COMAC and Bombardier's cooperation is expected to contribute further to enhancing the competitiveness of not only the C919 and CSeries aircraft programs, but also of both COMAC and Bombardier’s overall businesses, and will help with maximizing both parties’ cost savings and market shares, while allowing customers of the C919 and the CSeries commercial airliners to realize cost benefits from the operation of both aircraft families.

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If all these entities, Bombardier, UAC, Embraer and COMAC join force, they can have even stronger chance in being the third player besides Boeing and Airbus. Imagine the combined market, airspace, population, budget and technological base, those would be bigger than EU/Airbus.

taxiya said:

If all these entities, Bombardier, UAC, Embraer and COMAC join force, they can have even stronger chance in being the third player besides Boeing and Airbus. Imagine the combined market, airspace, population, budget and technological base, those would be bigger than EU/Airbus.

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Unrealistic. The parties will have very different agendas and it would be very difficult to work out any reasonable and acceptable work shares and technical cooperation. Plus it's going to be a challenge to coordinate. More difficult than EU/Airbus. If it's going to happen at all, there needs to be a lead partner (or two) while others are minority partners.

By the way, I'm not optimistic that Russia and China can have a meaningful and successful partnership in wide-body jet. Just my opinion.

weig2000 said:

Unrealistic. The parties will have very different agendas and it would be very difficult to work out any reasonable and acceptable work shares and technical cooperation. Plus it's going to be a challenge to coordinate. More difficult than EU/Airbus. If it's going to happen at all, there needs to be a lead partner (or two) while others are minority partners.

By the way, I'm not optimistic that Russia and China can have a meaningful and successful partnership in wide-body jet. Just my opinion.

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Using a BRICS example, I can see UAC and COMAC as the senior partners, with Embraer, Denel and possibly Mahindra/Tata as junior partners in such an endeavor.

montyp165 said:

Using a BRICS example, I can see UAC and COMAC as the senior partners, with Embraer, Denel and possibly Mahindra/Tata as junior partners in such an endeavor.

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Not to mention they would be able to have access to low interests rates loans through the New Development Bank (BRICS) to obtain capital to keep the project going.

weig2000 said:

Unrealistic. The parties will have very different agendas and it would be very difficult to work out any reasonable and acceptable work shares and technical cooperation. Plus it's going to be a challenge to coordinate. More difficult than EU/Airbus. If it's going to happen at all, there needs to be a lead partner (or two) while others are minority partners.

By the way, I'm not optimistic that Russia and China can have a meaningful and successful partnership in wide-body jet. Just my opinion.

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Commercial aviation is today an international effort, in my youth, in the 1990s, i never thought in Mexico we were going to have MD helicopter manufacturing centerss, today we have from Cessna to Bombardier manufacturing plants to design centers from GE to ITP, at the end is not the political ambitions but the realities of commercial aviation what matters, the entrance of Comac will only reduce the Market to Airbus and Boeing but COMAC won`t take over, the very likely result is all these companies will cooperate rather than compete, is not that they want, but rather the increasing prices and risks force them to do it.

Equation said:

Not to mention they would be able to have access to low interests rates loans through the New Development Bank (BRICS) to obtain capital to keep the project going.

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To my knowledge development banks do not lend directly to individual corporate projects and cannot intervene with project that has direct conflict with WTO rulings.
They will lend funds to developing infrastructure and or even manufacturing facilities but cannot lend money directly to R&D projects for products for the market.